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Forum :: General Discussion

#715 to be Auctioned


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DooDahDan

PostPosted: 03/22/2007 at 10:47 AM    Post subject: #715 to be Auctioned link

Just thought I would share this with all of you Bean head.

TB1000A #715, formerly owned by Jerry Garcia, will be auctioned by Bonhams on May 8. Jerry apparently gave this Bean to former GD roadie, the late Ramrod. Here is the link to auction. http://www.bonhams.com/cg.....n=Catalogue&iSaleNo=15537

It's Lot 19. A little rich for my wallet. It will be interesting to see how much this fetches.

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KoaGod

Joined:
23 Sep 2002
Posts: 51
PostPosted: 03/22/2007 at 1:26 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Wow. Very interesting. $250,000 - $300,000.. hmmm.

Seems like the date is wrong. #715 circa. 1975? Doesn't seem right. I'd say '77. Interesting that it has the TB500 pickups in it..

KoaGod

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Sol

PostPosted: 03/22/2007 at 4:39 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Those look like strat pickups epoxied into a square shape to fit the TB1000 pickup routing...then staqmped with Travis Bean...

Did TB500 pickups look like outside of the body when unwound?

interesting.

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BoulderBean

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Posts: 303
PostPosted: 03/26/2007 at 9:32 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Very interesting. I have seen pictures of Garcia playing a white 1000A that definitely had the stock pickups. I wonder when these were changed out. Possibly for the Terrapin Station recordings? I would have thought he played a 500 for those. I had always assumed he played the white 1000A while recording Blues for Allah. The info on the auction site is not particularly accurate. I'm pretty sure Garcia did not play a Bean on the the "Steal Your Face" album (recorded in 1974). He started playing a Bean when the Dead "retired" for a year between '74 and '75. I can't read the serial number from the photo, but I wonder if "715" isn't really "115". That would make more sense...unless he had two white 1000A guitars.

I assume everyone is aware that Garcia's two white TB 500s have been for sale at Maverick Music for at least a year. Apparently no one wants to pay $500,000 for either of these guitars. Check them out at:

http://www.maverick-music.....uitars.asp?idproduct=1342
http://www.maverick-music.....uitars.asp?idproduct=1343

One of these was the guitar he played during the epic 1977 shows that many Dead Heads consider among the finest ever.

Thanks for the info. Garcia is how I learned about Travis Bean guitars. I kind of think his instruments should be on display somewhere rather than up for auction. Oh well.


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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 03/26/2007 at 9:37 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

This site has a nice history of Garcia's guitars. He started playing the white 1000A in 1975. I don't see how the number could be "715".

http://dozin.com/jers/guitar/history.htm

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 03/30/2007 at 11:05 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Here's another serial number twist - Artist #715 is in the TB Guitars database! Check it out for yourself. It's listed as "finished color" purchased in 1980. No name or e-mail associated with the listing.

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Dr. Vapor

PostPosted: 03/31/2007 at 7:02 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I have good friend who knows Parish and Kidd very well.....I met Steve last year still sharp as a tack...Kidd is not...but Steve might recall...beautiful ax either way....I assume Jerry may have used during alot of JGB in 75

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BoulderBean

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Posts: 303
PostPosted: 04/11/2007 at 9:40 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I took a close look at the photos today. It is definitely #715. This suggests that Travis Bean created two #715 necks, unless the entry in the database is bogus. Maybe Garcia requested that 715 be stamped on the neck. The famous Grateful Dead house was 710 Ashbury St......

A couple of other interesting quirks - the nut is scalloped brass. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it. If you go to the auction site and use the "flash" feature on the photos you can zoom in with high resolution.

Another thing - this guitar has been modified beyond the pick-ups. There is a small switch near the knobs - possibly a coil tap - but why if the pickups are single coil? It appears to me that the guitar has been modified since the time that the photo on the travisbeanguitars.com home page was taken. I think Garcia mostly played this guitar in its stock factory form. There are a number of photos that show the original pickups. I suspect the guitar was altered after he switched to the early TB500 models in an effort to replicate that sound. But who the hell knows! I don't think they are going to get the $$ they're seeking for this item. This guitar is simply not as familar to fans as "Wolf" or "Rosebud". The fact that the two Garcia TB500s have been up for sale for more than a year suggests that the price is too high.

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 04/13/2007 at 11:14 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Sorry to keep beating this horse, but I can't help my myself.

Here is a link to a photo of the album cover from the Garcia Band's live performance on May 21, 1976. Garcia is playing a white TB 1000A with stock pickups and no extra switch. If the guitar up for auction is the same one (maybe he had two ??) then it was modified after this date. Furthermore, I don't think he played it live much (if at all) in the modified condition.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/.....8?ie=UTF8&s=music#gallery

I'll shut up now. Thank you.

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KoaGod

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Posts: 51
PostPosted: 04/13/2007 at 11:28 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I think you've brought up some great points. I think the serial is the biggest issue here. I can't really see the factory stamping a custom serial for him.. but I could totally be wrong. Another interesting option.. maybe he had the neck replaced at some point.

I hope whoever is going to drop 300k on this really does the research and poking around. That would suck if this was a hoax guitar, etc. I'm curious if the electronics cavity has the same 715 in there. The date and the serial sure don't seem to match.

On the coil tap.. I'm curious since he had original hums in there... he might have tried to put split coils in there first. and later added the TB500 pickups. It would be great if we could get a 'Dead' guitar tech to help fill the blanks here.

KG

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Johnny B

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Posts: 29
PostPosted: 05/07/2007 at 11:11 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

The original guitar was sent to Travis Bean for repair. They just sent him a new guitar. The original serial number is #51. I can verify this.
John

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BoulderBean

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Posts: 303
PostPosted: 05/07/2007 at 11:15 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

That explains a lot! Thanks very much. Frankly I think this information reduces (significantly) the value of the instrument being auctioned off tomorrow as part of the Ram Rod collection. The Bean that Ram Rod had was not really the one that Garcia played throughout 1975 and 76, but is rather a replacement that was perhaps never used on stage. I wonder what happened to #51?

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JB

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Posts: 29
PostPosted: 05/07/2007 at 11:40 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

It may be #51 or x51. Sometimes they didn't put the first digit in the serial numbers. (the hundred number). I have seen the original body from Garcia's guitar and the number on it is 51. It got messed up at a repair shop in San Fran. Then it got sent back to Travis.

I'm trying to find out more as we speak. I think it would go good with the one up for sale. It would complete the history.


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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/07/2007 at 12:45 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

If what JB says it true (and is sure makes sense given the serial numbers) then they have a lot of mis-information of the auction web site. I just sent the following to Margaret Barrett - the contact person for the auction at Bonhams.

========================

Dear Ms. Barrett,

I am a Travis Bean guitar aficionado and a Jerry Garcia fan. I have been playing close attention the upcoming auction of the Travis Bean 1000A #715 from the Ram Rod collection that Bonhams is offering. You may or may not be aware that there has been an interesting discussion of this sale on the Travis Bean guitar forum. I suggest that you might wish to review this discussion as it has brought some interesting issues to light. The web address is: http://www.travisbeanguit.....fuseaction/forum.view.htm

As you probably know, Jerry Garcia began playing a white Travis Bean 1000A guitar in 1975 and played it as his primary guitar through much of 1976. Based on the serial number of the guitar Bonhams is offering for sale - #715, it is highly unlikely that guitar you are selling is in fact the same instrument played by Garcia over those two years. Rather is appears to be a replacement sent to him from the Travis Bean factory after he returned his original 1000A for repairs.

It is believed that the serial number from Garcia's original 1000A was #51 NOT #715. This makes sense since Travis Bean guitars went into production in 1974 and Garcia received one of the earliest models. Travis Bean serial #715 would not have been manufactured until 1976 or 1977. Furthermore, there are distinct differences between the 1000A that Garcia is pictured with on stage in 1975 and 76 and #715 which you are selling. #715 has black single-coil pickups and it has an extra switch. The 1000A Garcia was frequently photographed with (including the Jerilyn Brandelius book referenced on your web site) has the stock silver covered double coil pickups and does not have any extra switch.

I have no doubt that the guitar you are selling was in fact owned and played by Jerry Garcia, however I cannot find any photograph of him playing that exact guitar - i.e. #715 on stage. I think it is probably that he switched to the Travis Bean 500 model that he played for much of 1977 before #715 was set as a replacement from the factory. Since the information on the Bonhams web site suggests that guitar for sale was actually played regularly by Garcia, you may wish to issue a correction.

Please be assured that I have no commercial or financial interest in this matter. I am writing to you as a sincere fan of Garcia and of the instruments he played in an effort to promote the most accurate information available.

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KoaGod

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Posts: 51
PostPosted: 05/07/2007 at 1:02 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

WTG Bolder!

I think getting the info straight would be incredibly important. If you're going to lay that kind of cash on an instrument, I'd want to make sure the history is correct and accurate. This thread has become quite interesting!

KoaGod

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BoulderBean

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Posts: 303
PostPosted: 05/07/2007 at 1:03 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I just got this response from Ms. Barrett. Let's see what happens.

=====================

Dear Mr. Mayer,
Thank you for this information - it is very helpful. I will forward it to my client, Rudson Shurtliff, the son of Ram Rod, who is the owner.

Best,
Margaret Barrett

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Johnny B

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Posts: 29
PostPosted: 05/07/2007 at 2:22 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

OK, here's more.

The pickups on the 1000 at Bonhams were for sure for Garcia. The pickups were specially made for Jerry. He wanted single coil pickups.
They put a Travis Bean single coil into a Travis Bean humbucker cover. Then filled around it with epoxy. After it dried, they popped it out of the pickup cover. This is why it says Travis Bean on the pickup. It got that lettering from using the pickup cover as a mold. The pickup covers had Travis Bean stamped in them and this transfered to the epoxy.
JB

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/07/2007 at 2:27 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

They made these pickups at Travis Bean.

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BoulderBean

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Posts: 303
PostPosted: 05/08/2007 at 10:00 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Today is the auction and I'm convinced that the information about Garcia's Bean on the Bonham's auction site is inaccurate and misleading. Definitely a buyer beware situation at this point.

The Bonham's site says the following about #715 for sale:

"He played it at the Golden Gate Park show in 1975, the Orpheum Theatre show on May 21, 1976 (with The Jerry Garcia Band), and the other Orpheum Theatre show on July 12, 1976 (as well as at that show's soundcheck). Additionally, he played this guitar during the recordings of the "Steal Your Face" album and "Terrapin Station" album. It is also the same guitar he was holding on the covers of the recently released albums titled "Don't Let Go" and "Grateful Dead: Live At The Cow Palace, New Years Eve, 1976.""

I don't think any of these claims are true.

1. Golden Gate Park show in 1975 - TB #715 would not have been made until 1976 at the earliest.
2.. Orpheum Theatre May 1976 - check out the photo from that show here - http://www.amazon.com/gp/.....8&s=music&index=0#gallery
The guitar Garcia is playing clearly has stock pickups and no extra switch.
3. Steal Your Face album - this was recorded during the "farewell" concerts in 1974 and is documented in the "Grateful Dead Movie". Garcia does not play a Bean at all at those shows.
4. Terrapin Station album - highly doubtful. This album was recorded in late 76 - early 77 and he made the switch to a TB 500 by fall 1976.
5. Don't Let Go - Same as #2 above. The album was recorded at the Orpheum Theatre show.
6. Live at the Cow Palace 1976 - Check out photos from this show on You Tube. Garcia is playing a white TB 500. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk1bmcPnjQo

IMHO Bonham's should remove the guitar from the auction until the authenticity of their claims can be verified. I'm betting that they can't. In that case it should be re-listed as a guitar Garcia owned, but perhaps never played on stage ever or for any recording. Which explains why he gave it to Ram Rod who seems to only have had Garcia guitars that he never really used (there is an early Doug Irwin for sale also that I don't think was used much if ever).

OK I'm spending way too much time of this! Cheers.

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BoulderBean

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Posts: 303
PostPosted: 05/08/2007 at 2:05 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

FYI - from the Bonham's site -

"Sold for $260,000 plus Premium and tax".

Wow.

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Johnny B

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Posts: 29
PostPosted: 05/08/2007 at 2:17 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I wonder if the original body is worth anything....

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/08/2007 at 2:20 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I think the next holy grail would be neck #52. I don't know what happened to it...

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/08/2007 at 2:22 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

oops...
I mean neck #51

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BoulderBean

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Posts: 303
PostPosted: 05/08/2007 at 9:25 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Johnny B can you tell us the story of #51 and they repair and replacement? How did you get the body? This is Bean history.

Somebody has just bid/paid what must be the all time record amount for a Travis Bean just because it was touched by Jerry Garcia. If you have the actual body that Garcia used I should think that might be worth quite a bit. Check out some of the sale prices at that auction site. But please fill us in on the story of #51. Thanks!

Here's something to ponder....

Why did someone pay $260,000 for #715 while the TB 500s that Garcia played during the great run of 1977 shows sit unsold in a similar price range? This includes TB500 #1. Coincidentally that 77 run includes Barton Hall, Cornell University 5-8-77 - exactly 30 years ago today - one of the most heavily traded bootleg shows in the pre-internet days.

Why indeed.

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/08/2007 at 9:40 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I was a little off on the pricing of Garcia's TB500s.

TB500 #11 is for sale for $500,000 and
TB500 #12 is a mere $750,000.

They have been purportedly for sale for at least a year.

http://www.maverick-music.....tegory.asp?idCategory=123

They might be the only Beans in existence that could break the price record set today.

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/08/2007 at 11:21 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Boulderbean

OK, this is what I know.
I don't own the body. I can go see it though. I don't mean to be vague, but I'm just not ready to let the cat out of the bag. I'm pondering posting pictures.

Like I said before, it got messed up on a repair job in San Fran. I think they were trying to install a single coil between the humbuckers & stopped because there isn't much wood around there to remove & mount a pickup to. Jerry sent it back to Travis Bean. They looked at it and decided to send out a new one.
They then removed the body from the neck on the original. What happened to the neck is the mystery right now. All that's left is the body & tail piece. The pickups & controls are gone. They wrere just the stock PU's & controls anyway.

I talked to Steve Parrish (I think it was Steve) to see if he may have any parts. This was about the time when Jerry's 500's were up for auction a few years ago. I don't remember what or if Steve had any parts. I described the body to him & he agreed that it was right. I had other verification also. We both dropped the ball on what to do with the body. The owner was contemplating selling it, but didn't. So I lost Steve's number & forgot about the whole thing until this auction came up. I think it would be a nice piece to go with the guitar at the auction.
That's about it.
Johnny B

PS. Do you realize that after fees & taxes, that Bean went for $312,000!!!!

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/10/2007 at 7:57 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

The original Garcia TB1000A body. Here's some pics. This body has been in a box for 30 years..

http://s69.photobucket.co.....ums/i60/bozwald77/travis/

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guitarcharlie

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Posts: 250
PostPosted: 05/10/2007 at 11:29 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Wow! that is great stuff JB! Thanks for posting those photos.

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guitarcharlie

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Posts: 250
PostPosted: 05/10/2007 at 11:30 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Wow! that is great stuff JB! Thanks for posting those photos.

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CP

PostPosted: 05/11/2007 at 10:40 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

well if that's the case, what's up with the sticker on that body? If you look closely at many published pictures , the "switch" that was added is clearly visable in many famous photos. Jerry changed pickups and moded guitars all the time. Parrish told the former owner of this guitar that Jerry owned only 1 TB1000 and that this was it. (the one from the auction). It is possible that a replacement neck was added at some point, but that is unknown at this time. Also, keep in mind that Ram Rod was Jerry's tech until 1978, not Parrish. Also, this guitar was obviously HEAVILY played........I don't think Garcia had time to put that type of wear onto 2 TB1000s. The Tb1000 is worn (by Jerry) more than both 500s put together. I wonder why all this wasn't brought up months ago when all this was annouced and published? Maybe you guys could have helped the process instead of speculating about it.

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CP

PostPosted: 05/11/2007 at 10:50 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

obviously all the sr info from TB is sketchy.............that database is a mess. Never seen a pic of jerry with a guitar with that sticker on the body in the "body" shots..........who would take a botched Garcia guitar repai, and put a sticker on it? The teleport to 1980 (in a groovy time machine), then back to 76 where there is video of Jerry playing a guitar that is obviously the one in the auction. Look at the wear marks!!!!! Rookies. Oh! and the guitar came directly from Garcia....to the previous owner, who put it in the auction. The who and wheres are none of anyone's business, but it was as inner cirlcle as it gets...........like Jerry Nonoe of your business auction. Who is anyone to question that? Figuring out the whos and hows of how a star like Jerry would up with whatever SR # is fine. Speculating about the integrity of GD Family is not.

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guitarcharlie

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PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 1:04 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Yikes! The plot thickens...I'm not sure all that was completely clear, but it adds some good intrigue to the story. Who is CP? It seems more likely to me that a body would be replaced on a Bean, since the necks are more or less unbreakable. And it is certain that #751 neck did not exist in 1975 when the original guitar appeared.

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 9:31 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

CP - your messages are really unclear and you offer no proof for the claims you make.

If you can provide a link to a photo or a video of Garcia playing the guitar with the modded pickups and the extra switch it would be most helpful. You suggest there is such a picture, but offer no link. I have sought out these photos and have found none. Instead I have found quite a few pictures of Garcia playing a TB 1000A that is NOT modded and has stock pickups. Furthermore, #715 would not have been constructed until 1976 or later. Garcia started playing his Bean in 1975. The magazine advertisements he did for Travis Bean show him holding a White 1000A with stock pickups and no extra switch. These advertisements came out before #715 would have been constructed.

I don't know anything about #51 and the body in the photos that have been posted. However, it is certainly a lot more likely that Garcia would have played #51 in 1975 than #715. But as you suggest, perhaps neck #715 was a replacement.

Finally, no one here is suggesting that a "member of the GD family" is being dishonest - Ram Rod, his son or anyone. That said, history has shown that the GD family is just like any other - there are good folks and not so good folks (Rock Sculley for example or Mickey Hart's dad who ran off with their $$). No family is exclusively full of angels.

People on this site are interested in Travis Bean guitars and their history. The auction folks did not have very good information about guitar #715 and they specifically referenced shows where that guitar in that configuation was not played. I have noted these specifically in my post above and I have attempted to provide links to photos or videos that support the conclusions. If I am wrong about any of these please let me know.


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CP

PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 11:32 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I'm not a computer geek, and do not know how to post the photos, but have several of Jerry with the guitar and switch., and a video as well. I'm not here to bicker with you folks, just to shed some light on your endless speculation. Everything that was said by Bonhams was confirmed by people that were actually there, and actually know. Did any of you work for TB or GD in the 70's???? I doubt it. Look at how many different pickup configurations, and mods were used on ALL of Jerry's guitars. Pickups were rarely the same from tour to tour, much less, year to year. Did any of you notice that one of the leftover stock pickups was included with the guitar at auction?????? DUH! I don't have to prove anything to anyone.........I already know the facts....got them from the original sources....maybe you guys will figure them out someday. Why not just enjoy the event and signifigance thereof?

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CP

PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 11:35 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

JUST LOOK AT THE WEAR MARKS ON THE BODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUH!!!!!!!!!!

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CP

PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 11:41 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

As far as the TB500s............Maverick Music paid $200000 for one, and $400000 for the "enemy" guitar, and got the strap with it. He is asking for twice that. I'm sure they will sit there for quite some time based on the price and the source. I do not recommend dealing with Maverick. I do not find them to be honest.

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guitarcharlie

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PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 1:06 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Sounds like we need Travis himself to clear all this up!

In the meantime, I have some thoughts about those pickups. Jerry obviously liked strat pickups since he played a real strat through Europe 1972, etc. and it appears he installed strat pickups in that first custom guitar that preceeded the Travis Bean phase (forgot the maker). Is it possible that he had strat pickups installed on his original TB artist to get some of the sound he had for the previous few years. Maybe this preceded his first TB500? When I listen to that recording from the 1975 San Francisco park concert (forgot actual date and place) the tone sounds very much like TB humbuckers to me. Very strong and thick. It seems Jerry went back to a slightly thinner single coil sound when he switched to the TB500. I have wondered if maybe he thought the single coil tone balanced better with the rest of the band? Those humbucker leads he played are huge and really jump out in the mix. Regardless, I have always thought that the tone he got in that 75 park concert was fantastic and wished he had stuck with it longer....not that the later stuff was too shabby!

Anyway, lots of good stuff in this thread.....keep it coming.........Mr. Bean????

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 1:41 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I knew a CP would come out of the wood work.
When I talked to Steve Parrish about this, I of course mentioned the "sticker". He agreed that it was there. I never found a picture with Garcia with the sticker though.
The guy who owns body #51 is an old TB guy. If he says it's right & Steve says it's right, it's right. I wouldn't just take my word on this.

"JUST LOOK AT THE WEAR MARKS ON THE BODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUH!!!!!!!!!! ".
If you look at the back of my body pictures and the back of the body in the auction, there is the same style wear mark to the right of the bottom strap button. It's right above the right guitar stand body fork in the auction pics. Maybe all the 1000's wear that way?

I've been trying off & on to find the key Garcia & #51 picture, I bet there's one out there somewhere.
If anyone has one. I'd love to see it.
I'll ad more as I think...
JB

I liked this one also... "Look at the wear marks!!!!! Rookies."

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CP

PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 1:59 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Guys....all due respect. There are details of this situation that prove and validate what I have stated to you. Alas, they are not the business of anyone but those directly involved, and I will not divulge them. That being said, I have given you enough information to form an educated and informed opinion about this topic. Rest assured that all is well with this situation and steps were taken to make that a certainty. Beyond that, and the other statements made in regard to this matter, I wish you all well, and a good day.

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CP

PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 2:05 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

sorry....one more.......I have MANY photos of this guitar...in all or most of the different configurations it assumed. NEVER have a seen one with that silly sticker on the body...or the big crack....or the wear around the selector switch......that database is a mess. Ever actually gone through it? It has more contradictions and ommisions than a government manual. And by the way......MANY builders SR numbers get mixed up for countless reasons, and they don't all make sense...not with TB, or most MI products. Glad you like the "rookies" line....it may not apply to all, but certainly to many. Have a Happy Happy day!

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 3:10 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

CP, thanks for the info on the Mavericks guitars. Buyer beware! Those TB500 guitars (and "Wolf" suggest that Garcia wasn't averse to stickers on his guitar.

I'm glad to know that there are photos of Garcia playing #715 because even those who "were there" sometimes have trouble remembering details. Especially those involved with the notorious "just say yes" Grateful Dead entourage. I urge you to post your photos to photo bucket or some other internet site and paste the link into a posting here.

The site below has an interesting pictoral history of Garcia's guitars and includes two shots of him with the 1000A
http://www.nii.net/~obie1.....deadcd/garcia_guitars.htm

In one picture the extra switch from #715 may be visible.

Of course Garcia modded his guitars all the time. It was during his stint playing the Bean 500 in late 1976 and early 1977 that Garcia started experimenting with the unity gain buffer that required an extra jack on the guitar. He also endorsed Travis Beans as, "the best damn production guitars." I expect a careful review of the copiously documented Grateful Dead and JGB shows from 1975 - 1976 will show that he played an unmodified Travis Bean 1000A most of the time. #51? I don't know. But it didn't have neck #715 - the one that just sold for more than $300K.

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 3:49 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I don't mean to sound all self rightious but here goes.

How do you question the guy who was working at the Travis Bean shop when the guitar came in, discussed the guitar with Travis & other employees, Whacked the body with a hammer to remove it from the neck. He also told me about the single coil pickups in the 1000. I showed him the closeup picture from the auction site to see if he knew anything about the pickups & he said 'wait a minute... I made those pickups.' Then told me the epoxy story. Sticker shmicker. That's what was on it when it came into the TB shop.
Gosh I'll even name name's! I'll divulge!!

CP..."Rest assured that all is well with this situation and steps were taken to make that a certainty."

Why should I take your word for it? I wouldn't take my word for it. Truth is truth. Ask the dead, ask Travis, ask Parrish. Let's get the real history.
JB

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guitarcharlie

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PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 4:16 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Hey..I've got an interesting observation!

Check out the first photo of Jerry playing the guitar on the site that Boulder Bean suggested. There is a sticker or something between the four knobs. Then look at the broken body photos. There is a faint ghost of the sticker in the same spot. That could not be faked IMHO. I say that broken body is the real deal! #51 wins!

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 4:32 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I'll take another closeup picture Monday & post it. Photobucket only gives you 600x800 resolution.
I never caught that detail. Good work GuitarCharlie!!
JB

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 4:50 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

JB's photos and version of events make perfect sense give the verified serial numbers and dates of manufacture. There does appear to be a faded spot in between the knobs where a sticker might have been.

Here's another Garcia guitar history site with a photo of Jerry and his 1000A with stock pickups.

http://dozin.com/jers/guitar/history.htm

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 4:59 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

If you zoom in on the TB at the site. http://dozin.com/jers/guitar/history.htm

I think the control knob area sticker is on the body. There's something on the body there and it's not the switch from the auction guitar. The switch isn't in that position.
JB

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CP

PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 10:13 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Check with Parrish.......you'll find I'm correct. That's the end of it.

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/12/2007 at 11:24 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I talked to him already. He agreed that the body is right.
JB

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CP

PostPosted: 05/13/2007 at 10:04 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Parrish says that there was one TB1000 and this is it. Did any of you actually attend the viewing or auction?????? Have you seen this guitar in person since 77? Have any of you held it in your hands???? . Didn't think so.....Guess you guys would rather bicker than know the truth.

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/13/2007 at 12:26 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Funny, CP says that it's possible that the neck could be a replacement, yet he can't believe that the body could become damaged and be replaced? It would be harder to damage an aluminum neck.

I know that the serial number on the auction 1000 body is either 715 or a close number.

Did CP go to the auction? Did anyone ask Parrish about any repair history? I'm sure Garcia owned it & played it. There is a history though.
I don't think Parrish is lying when he says that there is 1 TB1000. There is a repair history with that guitar. Part of the history is a replacement guitar.


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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/14/2007 at 9:25 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

JB is correct. The $300,000 guitar appears to be a replacement that was owned by Garcia. At a minimum the neck was replaced and there appears to be believable evidence than the body was replaced as well.

We're still waiting for CP to produce a single clear dated photo or video of Garcia playing #715 with the single-coil pickups and extra switch. I still question whether the guitar with neck #715 was EVER played on stage given the limited number of shows played between the Orpheum Theatre shows in July 1976 (where the guitar clearly has the stock pickups and no extra switch) and the photos of Garcia playing the Bean 500 in late 1976. The http://dozin.com/jers/guitar/history.htm site suggests that the switch from 1000A to 500 was made in Sept. - Oct. 1976 time frame.

No shred of proof has been produced, just a lot of info from the auction site that has been proven incorrect by the known serial number and manufacturing dates and the photographic evidence listed above. Then there are the overly defensive, accusatory, and occasionally hostile postings from CP that offer a lot of huffing and puffing, but no substance.

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CP

PostPosted: 05/14/2007 at 9:56 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

SUBSTANCE??? You must be smoking substance. Parrish says there was 1 TB1000. End of story. I'm glad I have better things to do with my time than bicker on a TB site. Best luck, and best wishes. I will not share the info or photos, or the VIDEO! that I have with the likes of you.

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/14/2007 at 10:30 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

You seem to have a problem with proof CP. Specifically, I don't think you have any.

Parrish says there was one 1000A. Let's assume this is true. #715 is still a replacement. Garcia only had one 1000A - at any given time. There is no way that #715 was the guitar he played in 1975. That neck was not constructed until 1976. Does anyone dispute this fact?

JB has provided a plausible explanation based upon direct contact with a TB employee who worked on Garcia's guitar and even constructed the pickups for the replacement. He has produced photos of the guitar body which appear to match the historic photos of Garcia with the guitar - down to the faded sticker mark between the knobs. You have produced no shred of evidence. Why should be take your word for anything?

You seem to care enough about this issue, why don't you produce the proof which you claim to have? Are you afraid it won't stand up to scrutiny? Show us some proof that Garcia played #715 on stage with the modded pickups- even once. Do you have something at stake here that you are not revealing?

If you are unwilling (or unable) to provide any proof then I think we have our answer.

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CP

PostPosted: 05/14/2007 at 7:38 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Steve was consulted about this matter pre auction, and confirmed that there had been one, and this was it. End of story. .......watching the video as I type....hopefully for the last time on this subject.


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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/14/2007 at 8:34 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I talked to Bill Lomenick today and asked more questions. Yes, Bill worked for Travis Bean. I've worked with him everyday for the past 10 years.
The single coil pickups were installed before the 715 went out to Jerry. I would assume that they were never swapped out after that, but who knows, they are in the guitar now.
The little switch by the control knobs were done after it left TB's shop. So I would think that any pics with chrome humbucker covers are with #51 & any with the black single coils are #715.

Bill says that TB wouldn't put the neck on another body because they hand blended the body to the neck joint. To much hassle The body's & necks were matched when they were built.
(Ask anyone who's ever tried to swap necks on a Bean). As far as what happened to neck #51, he doesn't know.
The 715 is most likely KOA, they started using poplar in the ~1000's serial numbers. (Rough estimate on when poplar started).

I'm sorry CP but this isn't an opinion or speculation, this is it. I wouldn't bother with this unless I had facts that line up right.
Parrish agreed that it was right. Bill knows the story first hand. I haven't talked to Travis, maybe that's my next step.
The serial numbers are a real factor here. The wear marks on the back of the bodys are in the same spot.
The ghost spot where a sticker used to be match.
It would be nice to find a picture with the bird sticker, but maybe there isn't one.
Just for good measure, I'm going to help Bill find "The Book" at his place. He's not sure what kind of records are in it, but we'll find it.

CP did you buy the 715 at the auction? It's still a Garcia. Whatever anyone would pay for that guitar is OK. It will hold its value & only go up in value.

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/14/2007 at 8:47 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I've put up a few more pictures. They're in the same place.

http://s69.photobucket.co.....ums/i60/bozwald77/travis/

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hogrot

PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 8:39 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

CP

why would you claim to have pictures that prove your point and refuse to share with anyone?
why do you come to a guitar hobbyist site trying to squash a debate on an auction that brought in this much money.

do you have something to gain or lose from this? it seems like CP is either having major buyer's remorse, or was somehow involved in the auction and is regretting or worried about something and shitting bricks that this discussion will surface something s/he doesn't want out there.

come clean CP. we're here to help.

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 9:22 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

The ghost mark from the sticker is really visible in the new photos JB posted. Hogrot is on the money - CP must have something at stake here. I doubt he/she is the buyer, however. Perhaps Ram Rod's son or an associate.

The buyer might be upset to learn that #715, while surely owned by Garcia, was not in fact the exact instrument played in 1975 and the first half of 1976.

This type of thing happens all the time at auctions. At art auctions the issue is forgery. There are many pieces of forged art hanging on the walls of the super rich. Forgery is of course not the issue here as #715 is a Travis Bean guitar and it was owned by Jerry Garcia. However, the value of Garcia's instruments does seem to be determined by how much they were played by him. The early Doug Irwin guitar auctioned off at the same time as #715 was bought for $150K or something. That guitar was rarely played by Garcia and I have never seen a photo of him with that instrument. Hence the lower sales price. Garcia's "Tiger" guitar, also built by Doug Irwin, was the instrument he played the most during his career. It sold for $850,000.

The question that could be haunting CP is what happens when the buyer of #715 discovers this forum.

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hogrot

PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 1:17 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I can't imagine someone would drop that kind of cheddar without doing their research first. I'd have to assume that the buyer has been to this forum and seen this thread. I mean, it is the first result on google when you search for travis bean. If the buyer hasn't seen this site I'd have to assume s/he is so full of money and nostalgia for the Dead that they're better off ignorant than informed about the guitar.

Really sketchy work by the auction house to not verify the claims made in the listing. Even after a poster from here emailed them about it-- they had every opportunity to clarify it, but of course they did not. I won't complain about the disgusting practice of using nostalgia and death for profit, but obviously that plays into all of this.

Come clean CP. You'll sleep better.

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Y!Gearheads' "tigerstrat"

PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 1:57 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Even if this 1000A was a replacement exchanged in 1977 (and
NOT the same one as he used onstage from August 1975 to July 1976),
then Garcia STILL would have performed onstage with it: it features
in photos from JGB and GD shows of Nov/Dec 1977, in fact I believe
JGB 12/4/77 shows JG w/ a 1000A and John Kahn playing a rare Bean bass.

I have also seen a shot of GD 12/11/77 w/ the 1000A evident. Sorry, I don't know a link for said pics, but I think I have them saved at home and could send them to whoever requests.

~ts

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 2:13 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Tiger Strat, thanks for the input. It would be great if you could direct us to the photos. I've searched just about every site I can come up with without any success.

There is photo of Garcia playing the 1000A with stock pickups on 5/23/06 that link is posted above (see Orpheum Theatre). That's the last dated photo of him playing a 1000A I have found. There are photos of him playing the 500 on 8/2/76. Here is the link - http://www.photog.com/gdead/70s/76/Colt/index.htm

All the photos I can find from 1977 show him either playing a 500 (he had 2) or Wolf. I'm still waiting to see evidence that he ever played #715 on stage.

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 2:30 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Check out this photo!

http://www.pointreyesvisi.....ippies/Jerry%20Garcia.jpg

I'm not sure of the date (presumably 1976), but here is the white 1000A with stock pickups and the STICKER exactly where the ghost mark from #51 appears. This is a very clear image.

It sure looks like #51 was the original Garcia Bean.

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 2:31 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

That link didn't work. Try this one: http://www.pointreyesvisi.....ippies/Jerry%20Garcia.jpg


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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 2:36 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Something is wonky with the link posting. You can also get to the photo from this site: http://6kagans.blogspot.c.....o-really-miss-ithaca.html

Click on the photo for a nice view.

FYI - The discussion about Ithaca 5-8-77 on this site is irrelevant here since it's well established he played a 500 at that concert.

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 2:38 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Sorry for the repeated posts. According to the photographers web site, this photo is from the Keystone Theater in Berkeley - 1976.

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admin

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PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 2:43 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Not sure if this pic has been brought up. Just looked through some of the Jerry pics and found an interesting one.

It almost looks like the modified pickups, but could be the lighting on the pu cover. And it appears to have the sticker between the knobs.

http://www.travisbeanguit.....images/beans/jerry/34.jpg

Any idea on the year?
admin

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 2:48 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

The leather jacket and outdoor venue suggest it could be the San Francisco park concert on 9/28/75. Other shots from that event show stock pickups. The sticker does appear to be there in this shot.

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admin

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PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 2:50 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Correct.. just found this pic..
http://www.trufun.com/books/nfa/jg.ggp.gif

Shows same jacket/shirt/strap and with stock pickups.

The links have been repaired above. It didn't like the space in the file name.

admin

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Y!Gearheads' "tigerstrat"

PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 3:55 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

the last two photos, with the leather jacket are from 9/28/75 free concert in Golden Gate Park.

The last known pics featuring Garcia pictured with the "first" TB 1000A are soundcheck shots (and video) from the July 76 Orpheum Theater, San Francisco.

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guitarcharlie

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PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 3:58 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I just checked the Grateful Dead data base and there are no shows in Berkeley in 1975 or 1976 or 1977, so maybe that photo was somewhere else. Below is a link to the Dead concert database. It might lead to some good cross references with photos. So far the only sure photo/concert date is 9/28/75 and that is clearly #51 due to the sticker as has been stated. We need more photos that correspond with the concert dates from 1975-1976. Hey this is fun....like a detective party!

http://www.deadlists.com/default.asp

You can cross refence dates, venues etc if you dig around on this site. It is quite a resource. Someone's labor of love no doubt.

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 4:13 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Guitar Charlie - the Dead didn't play much in 1975. They played more in 1976, but the Jerry Garcia Band was active in both those years. Most of the photos of Garcia with the 1000A are from Garcia Band Shows. The Jerry site - http://www.thejerrysite.com/new-index.jsp has listings of all the shows Garcia played that were not Grateful Dead concerts.

Tiger Strat is a known expert on Garcia and the equipment he used. If he says the last known shots of Garcia with the 1000A are from May 1976, then it would be a big surprise if other photos or video surfaced. The shots from May 1976 show him playing a guitar with stock pickups and no extra switch. I submit that the guitar in those photos is #51.

I repeat - no one has yet produced a single photo of Garcia playing #715. CP where are your photos and video?

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 8:48 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Great detective work all! Thanks Loads!! I should have done this when Jerry's 500's were on auction.
Bill & I have talked about this quite a bit over the years. It's a great conversation piece, but it's not quite as cool as a full functioning guitar. Whoever bought #715 kinda has a cooler piece. #51 is not really glamorous. What do you do with it? It's not really worth selling. How do you figure out the value. If it's not a decent price than you just keep it. It would be nice to have it on display somewhere, but where?

I'm going to (try to) help Bill find the spiral binder book he has with all the serial numbers in it. He can't remember how much data is in it, but he's pretty sure he has it. He said to me. "I remember putting it somewhere where I could easily find it." Well I just started laughing. I'll let you know when I/ we find it.

A little back ground.

I work with Bill in a shop in Chatsworth, CA.... Making stuff out of.... Aluminum!!! Go figure... He also makes & sells these cool Radar Detector mounts... Made out of....... Aluminum!!! Again, go figure. You can see his stuff here.
http://www.countryjoycraf.....ectorForRadarDetector.htm

No more guitar building though. Still a great, well experienced machinist.
He's also still into SCCA racing, you'll see his car on the site.
Anyway, a really cool guy. Great old stories about racing & beer, & the TB shop, (mostly racing & beer).
He doesn't mind me bugging him with TB questions so feel free to ask. I'll try my best to answer. Bill doesn't care much for bloggin'. If it's OK with the admin here, maybe we can route any questions through this site. A Q & A with Bill page?

Me, John Bowdler. Making stuff out of aluminum. I play guitar in a country band. I don't own or play a TB, I do like them, it's just not my bag. We play mostly local, but occasionally we do overseas gigs. (Way overseas). Like Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Germany.
Yeah, we do the military gigs. I tell ya, I'll go play for those guys & gals anytime, anyplace. One of the greatest experiences of my life. The band is "Von Cotton" There's some pictures here in Iraq & Germany if your board trying to find GD pictures.

http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i60/bozwald77/

Of course we're on "myspace" as well as www.voncotton.com
I'm not trying to sell my band, just trying to put a face with this blog. I'm the rather bald electrified guitar player.

I really appreciate this web site. (Travisbeanguitars.com). My hats off to the guy/ girl who put it together & runs it! Haven't met him /her, I would like to though.

I'll talk to you soon.
JB


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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/15/2007 at 9:05 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Thanks for putting a name and such a heart warming story with your blog name JB. I really appreciate the information you and Bill have shared. The photos really helped prove the point. I'm sure #51 is worth something to someone - afterall it was touched by the magical, mystical hands of Mr. Garcia! I understand (but am also a little sickened) by the desire of so many to cash in on the Garcia legacy. It's refreshing to hear about someone who is happy to let the memorabilia sit. At one point the surviving members of the band were planning to create a "museum" of sorts and I wouldn't be surprised if body #51 couldn't find a home there. Maybe the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame or the Experience Music Project in Seattle would be interested.

I'm sure there are many folks on this forum who have a question (or three) for Bill. Here is a great chance to get some info from someone who worked in the factory.

Best of luck with your music. Keep playing for the troops and tell them we want them back home safe and sound ASAP.

Peter

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Kevin

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PostPosted: 05/16/2007 at 12:42 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I must say this is the most informative thread I have ever read on a Bean. You guys are good. Just wanted to say that and thanks for the great information.

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Y!Gearheads' "tigerstrat"

PostPosted: 05/16/2007 at 9:43 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I beg the pardon of you all, as I had the date wrong on that late-70's sighting of Jerry playing a TB1000A which I cited yesterday; it is 12/13/78 (not 77) at Curtis Hixon Ctr, Tampa, FL. I'm not sure where this pic is now, but I have definitely seen it and was very surprised to see the TB1000 pop up.

The December 77 Rutgers U. pics that I was thinking of show one of the TB500's making a last hurrah, and Kahn playing a Bean bass

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/16/2007 at 10:11 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Tiger Strat, thanks again for your expertise. You have indicated that after July 1976 the 1000A popped up a few times. Any idea how many times? If you could provide a link to any photos of Garcia with the 1000A taken after May 1976 we would really appreciate it. The shot from the Orpheum ("Don't Let Go" CD cover) in May 1976 is the last one that we have found.

Here is the Garcia Bean lineage as I understand it now. Perhaps you can offer corrections -

TB 1000A - (probably #51) Some date in early-mid 1975 through July 1976
TB 500 - (#11 & #12) 8/2/1976 - Winter(?) 1977
Subsequently the 1000A (#715??) and the 500s popped up occasionally.
Last known date with the 1000A - 12/13/78 (from Tiger Strat)
Last known date with a 500 - ????

Any details and photos would be much appreciated.

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/16/2007 at 10:36 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

More grist for the mill. This is from another Dead guitar expert (who has contacts with the Garcia family), posted on the Yahoo Gear Heads site:

"I agree. That is most likely not the guitar. I spoke with one of the family two weeks ago and he confirmed that in addition to the two tb500s there were at least 3 artists.
Manufactures would typically send several of any guitar if there was positive feedback.
Auctions can be pure emotion. I was on the phone listening live. The auctioneer stated
that 'he was told that it was the guitar used while might as well, lazy lightning...etc etc
was performed live for the first time'

Shame, the irwin should have brought much more than the bean, even if it was the real
deal. The guy only built 5 guitars. From the pics one can surmise that it was used as a
prototype for all of Jerry's electronics upgrades, including the midi. You can see the slot
where the midi pick up was tried out."

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KoaGod

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PostPosted: 05/16/2007 at 12:11 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Where is CP? His silence is speaking volumes.

I have to say the work everyone is putting in on this is really impressive. Quite an interesting story is developing. Good reading for my lunch break!

KG

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/16/2007 at 2:16 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Sometimes I go back to CP's entry's and read them to myself with the voice of the "Child Catcher" from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Feel free to interject "Fools, Idiots, out of my way!" between random sentences.
JB

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Y!Gearheads' "tigerstrat"

PostPosted: 05/16/2007 at 3:19 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Jerry's Travis Bean chronology:

TB 1000A - (probably #51) August or September 1975 through 7/18/76
... (earlier photos from 75 show Jerry with the Irwin "Wolf", including spring 75 Blues_For_Allah sessions at Weir's house, GD 3/23/75 Kezar Stadium, and Garcia & Saunders July 75 at Golden Gate Park.)

TB 500 - (#11 & #12) GD 8/2/1976 Hartford, CT - GD 9/3/1977 Englishtown, NJ
... (fall 77 GD tour saw Jerry turning back to the newly-refurbished Irwin "Wolf", but the 500 saw continued use with JGB for November-December 77 tour, replaced by "Wolf" for JGB use by March 1978 tour) ... (also, the first reported sighting of the 500 modded with FX-loop jack is 12/31/76, a pic of him backstage at Cow Palace, talking to Bill Graham)

Last "reported" sighting of Jerry with a TB1000A - GD 12/13/78 Tampa, FL (probably #715) (? perhaps if other pics from this tour turn up, they might also show the 1000A)

Last "reported" sighting of Jerry with a TB500 - (? probably 12/4/77 Rutgers U., NJ)

Only reported sighting of John Kahn with Travis Bean bass: 12/4/77 Rutgers U.


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Y!Gearheads' "tigerstrat"

PostPosted: 05/16/2007 at 3:37 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

To complicate matters, www.thejerrysite.com shows 12/4/77 pics that show the Wolf, not the 500. I do have pics on my home machine (showing the TB500) which I had cited as "12/4/77" ... I didn't take the pics but I know who did and I could try to get hm to confirm the date.

Doesn't really have anything to do with the TB1000A question though.

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/16/2007 at 4:30 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Thanks Tiger Strat. That is really cool of you to post that info.

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JB

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PostPosted: 05/16/2007 at 5:53 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I think I found out who bought the 715....

http://www.rockstarsguita.....tails.php?c=1&prod_id=444


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CP

PostPosted: 05/17/2007 at 12:43 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

My silence is in response to your endless babble, and no pics of Jerry with any TB with that stupid sticker from those body shots. My info comes from Parrish, end of story. I also have...like a life....and no more time for this nonsense. I care nit what any of you think, and I'm done with all of you. Knowing the truth is more than enough for me. Good day Bean counters.

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/17/2007 at 9:40 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Maybe they didn't buy it. (Rockstarguitars) Maybe that's an old picture from when they were trying to sell it.

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Y!Gearheads' "tigerstrat"

PostPosted: 05/17/2007 at 11:34 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I'm sure everyone respects Steve Parish's expertise, but he's human and memories do get foggy and change, especially understandable if you read the many GD biographies surrounding 70's rock n roll excess... not taking a side here just want to keep it real about the value of Parish's input - it is of great value and while he had as much hands-on experience with Jerry's gear as anyone, he didn't do repair or mods work on it (its very hard to tell, not having met him, to what degree he understands or cares or "geeks out" about much of the technical side of things... in short its not like he is some sort of harddrive permanently storing every last detail about every piece of gear from 30 years ago, and he was partying as hard as anyone.

Finally found it, the last known shot of Jerry playing "a" TB1000A:

http://www.bonemeal.com/greggn/band1_12_13_78.jpg

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Y!Gearheads' "tigerstrat"

PostPosted: 05/17/2007 at 12:48 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Here's the link for the whole 12/13/78 gallery: http://greggnixon.net/gal.....0Dead/12_13_78/index.html

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/18/2007 at 2:08 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I haven't seen any pics of Jerry with the #715. Anybody have any?
JB

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/18/2007 at 3:13 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Thanks again Tiger Strat for the photos and the insight on Parrish. It's hard to tell much about the guitar from 1978 photos. I would say it definitely does not have the extra switch. I can't tell about the pick ups. They could be stock or it's possible they could be the black single coils. What do others think?

The info from the Gear Heads forum member who spoke to a member of "the family" and learned that there were THREE 1000A's was also interesting. That could be an explanation for why some photos have the sticker between the knobs (#51) and some don't. #51 is a body only owned by a former TB employee. #715 is for sale at a memorabilia web site. Is there another Garcia early serial number white 1000A out there somewhere? JB - if you could find "the book" that you mentioned it might provide some further info.

In light of the Rock Star Guitars photo I can only assume that CP is part of the group that bought guitar #715 in the hopes of reselling it at a profit. Our discussion here has done nothing to enhance the value, hence his belligerent attitude. The fact that he knows so much about the Bean 500's for sale on the Maverick site suggest a familiarity with celebrity guitars and memorabilia. CP hasn't come to grips with the reality of serial number #715 and the physical impossibility of that neck being used for most of the time that Garcia played a 1000A - regardless of what Parrish or anyone told him. Travis Bean didn't randomly or intentionally assign Garcia's guitar #715 in 1975.

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Y!Gearheads "tigerstrat"

PostPosted: 05/18/2007 at 4:54 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

"I haven't seen any pics of Jerry with the #715. Anybody have any?
JB"

See the previous post. December 1978.

And it's "Parish" with one "r".

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JB

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PostPosted: 05/18/2007 at 4:58 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Yea... I guess it's #715 before the little extra switch....
JB

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/18/2007 at 8:35 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Wow so we may have confirmed he played it on stage.....ONCE in a surprise appearance! The info from the auction was complete BS. I suppose the owner of the $312,000 guitar can close their eyes and pretend that it was...."the first instrument to play 'Lazy Lightning' and 'Might as Well'". You can do that with a $150 Indonesian Squier.

Tiger Strat - do you know of any photos from the JBG July 1976 shows? That could be the last sighting of the 1000A PRIOR to the Dec. 1978 appearance.

Does the Blair Jackson "Gear Guide" have any info on this subject? I haven't perused it yet.

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/19/2007 at 4:55 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I found some old notes on my old laptop.

At the Christie's auction in 2002, there were 1 or both of Jerry's TB500(s). With that lot was a TB1000a neck. As I recall, the body from that TB1000a was broken, destroyed. whatever. (it's not the #51 neck). I don't know if Maverick's bought the guitars at Christie's with that neck, or they bought it from someone else at that auction and didn't get the neck. I think I should call them about this.

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/22/2007 at 5:05 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Did Garcia own three different 1000A's as suggested by our friendly neighborhood Dead gear expert? So far we've identified two - #51 and #715. In reviewing all the photos accumulated through this research exercise I think we have evidence for a 3rd 1000A. The sticker between the knobs may be the key. That sticker appears in the photo from Golden Gate Park in 1975 and again in the clear b&w photo from 1976 - http://www.pointreyesvisi.....ippies/Jerry Garcia.jpg

But there is no sticker apparent in the photo from the Orpheum Theater - May 1976. I suspect he owned two 1000A's - #51 and another early serial number white one that dates back to 1975. #51 developed a problem and was sent back to the shop for repairs. #715 was sent as a replacement. This leaves one mystery Garcia 1000A guitar still out there somewhere......

JB - any luck turning digging up the old TB log book?

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/22/2007 at 7:04 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I'm gonna try to go to his house this weekend. I'm not looking forward to this...
JB

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/26/2007 at 6:56 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

RE:Travis Bean book:
I went, I searched, I failed. I'm gonna search at the shop again Tuesday.

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Scoid

PostPosted: 05/30/2007 at 4:39 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

http://launch.ph.groups.y.....tos/view/cfb1?b=1&m=f&o=0

I'm not sure if this link will work but I hope this helps clear up a few questions. It clearly shows Jerry playing an Artist with black single coils wearing a leather jacket no less. As to when and where he may have played it I couldn't say but, the admin's post shows Jerry playing it as well.

http://www.travisbeanguit.....images/beans/jerry/34.jpg

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Scoid

PostPosted: 05/30/2007 at 4:44 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Sorry 'bout that chief. If someone can tell me how to upload the pics to this site I will gladly do so.

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Scoid

PostPosted: 05/30/2007 at 5:07 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

This time for sure!

http://mysite.verizon.net/resnumcz/id13.html

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/30/2007 at 9:33 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Interesting. Thanks Scoid. The live shot (w/leather jacket and speakers) was listed earlier. It clearly has the sticker between the knobs that we believe to be body #51. It's hard to tell about the pickups, but I think the photo is from 1975 (Golden Gate Park) which would make it impossible for the neck to be #715 because of known manufacturing dates.

The scanned photo from the book does appear to be #715 with the black pickups. It looks like a studio photo, not a live concert shot. Is there any info about the photo (like a photo credit) in the book?

I think we only have found the one photo from December 1978 of Garcia playing #715 live. Garcia's hair in the scanned book photo (very long) looks like it could be from the late 1978 period too. Good stuff.

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Scoid

PostPosted: 05/30/2007 at 4:47 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

You betchya Beanie Boy! The two photos of 715 I posted are promo shots but here's the kicker. Jerry is wearing the same leather coat and has approxiamately the same hair as in the live shot. I think that the live shot is really 715. My eyes see the single coils in the live pic.

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Scoid

PostPosted: 05/30/2007 at 4:49 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

PS: How certain are we that the live photo is really from 75 instead of 78?

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guitarcharlie

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PostPosted: 05/30/2007 at 8:11 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Yup I'd say that is probably #751. You can see the scalloped brass nut and if we had a little better resolution maybe we could make out the serial number on the headstock???? What CD booklet is that photo from?

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/31/2007 at 9:28 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

This re-hashes some territory covered earlier in the thread, but here goes.

The live shot in front of the speaker our friend Scoid posted is the same one found by our Admin - http://www.travisbeanguit.....images/beans/jerry/34.jpg
The pickups appear dark in the photo, but the sticker from body #51 is visible. It appears this photo is from 9/28/75. Another photo from the same gig - http://www.trufun.com/books/nfa/jg.ggp.gif shows Garcia in the same outfit with a 1000A with stock pickups. http://www.nii.net/~obie1.....deadcd/garcia_guitars.htm has another shot from the same show showing stock pickups.

Tigerstrat from the "Gearheads" forum confirms (above) that all of these shots are from 9/28/75. #715 has not been born yet. The former Bean employee said he himself made the black single coil pickups in 1976.

Furthermore, the hair in 1978 was considerably longer than the photo Scoid posted. I've beat this horse enough!

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guitarcharlie

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PostPosted: 05/31/2007 at 12:50 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Boulder Bean, Are we looking at the same photo? The recently posted photo (found it in the Jerry Garcia box set CD booklet by the way) shows Jerry with the leather coat but the guitar strap is different than the 9-28-75 show photo and the sticker zone is cropped out of the photo. I can definately see the scalloped brass nut in the new photo, but maybe he had all his guitars with that mod. The hair does look similar to the 75 show/time frame. Again I want to see a high resolution blow up of that photo with the serial number! There also seems to be the tell tale redish stain on the upper horn which points back to #51 again....if we could make out that serial number I bet it might be #51 too. sorry to keep this going, but I couldn't resist

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 05/31/2007 at 1:33 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Guitar Charlie - Mr. Scoid posted 2 photo links. One was a studio shot that shows Garcia with what does appear to be #715 - although some of the details you raised are interesting. The other was a stage shot that had been found before. That's the one that I went into all the re-hash about. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 05/31/2007 at 7:04 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

If a photo has the black single coils, it isn't #51. Remember the single coils were made and installed on the replacement Bean.

Jerry looks a tad bit grayer & longer hair to me in the CD picture.

Still no &%#(@ book..... damn Bill......
JB

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Scoid

PostPosted: 05/31/2007 at 8:42 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Boulder Beaner,

I gotta go along with you.

I think the guitar in the live shots is 51 in '75, as evidenced by the other photos from that day, and the one in the promo shots is obviously 715.

Thanks for clearing up the '75 question.

So, my promo photos only prove that Jerry played/owned 715 at some time, and, not that he ever played it on stage.

Hope my photos helped.

Good day to all!

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Scoid

PostPosted: 05/31/2007 at 8:45 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link


"So, my promo photos only prove that Jerry played/owned 715 at some time, and, not that he ever played it on stage."



Let me rephrase that!


My promo photos only show that Jerry did indeed own/play 715. They do not prove, or disprove, that he ever played 715 on stage.


Good luck to all. I'm outa here.

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RED ROCKS

PostPosted: 06/01/2007 at 3:40 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

check out www.corbis.com, search for Jerry Garcia and you will see photos of what appears to be #715 and I'd guess taken of Garcia around 1976 to 1977.


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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 06/02/2007 at 8:08 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Thanks for the tip Red Rocks. There are quite a number of good, clear studio shots of Garcia with #715 on www.corbis.com. All the shots are from the same studio photo session and according to the site the photos were taken on November 21, 1981 - perhaps for the CD jacket Scoid posted. You can see that the leather jacket he's wearing in these photos is in fact brown - not black like the one in the 1975 Golden Gate Park pictures.

Whoever bought #715 will like these photos as they clearly show Garcia holding the guitar. To date we have only turned up 1 photo - from 1978 - of Garcia playing #715 on stage. All the other stage shots appear to be #51 or perhaps another 1000A of unknown serial number.

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admin

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PostPosted: 06/02/2007 at 11:12 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Very cool shots from Corbis!!!

admin

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RED ROCKS

PostPosted: 06/05/2007 at 3:23 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Boulderbean,
I am not a bean player or even a guitar player, but a deadhead and instrument lover. Anyway, check out corbis again and look at photo RR026824. It is a B&W photo, but Jerry has the guitar strap on (can't see the guitar) and the photo says 1978. Does this help???

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 06/06/2007 at 9:23 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Red Rocks - It might be the same strap, but there ain't no guitar in that picture so who knows! We have found one live shot from 1978 of Garcia with #715. The Corbis studio shots you directed us to are the only other photos that anyone has produced that show Garcia with #715.

It looks like someone paid over $300K for a Garcia guitar that was played on stage....once?!!

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Greg Bailey

PostPosted: 06/27/2007 at 2:50 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

HI,

Does anyone know if Mr. Garcia's guitar, #715, has a solid neck or hollow? I've heard that some TB necks were solid and some hollowed out, but which ones?? Did they start hollowing at a certain point or was it back and forth?

Thanks,
Greg

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Kevin

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PostPosted: 06/27/2007 at 7:16 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

To the bset of my knowledge all the production Beans have hollow necks. I know the first melody maker shaped one was solid and Im not too sure on the next prototypes with the strings trees. I know the first bass has a solid neck.

The only real difference in the production ones is they used to have the 2 channels machined down the inside of the neck, then mid production changed to the whole neck being hollowed(no center rib) and a very thin pc of aluminum under the fretboard.

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waldo041

PostPosted: 10/04/2007 at 9:42 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

JB Posted: 05/16/2007 at 5:53 PM Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I found out who bought the 715....
http://www.rockstarsguita.....tails.php?c=1&prod_id=444


sorry to bring this up again, but,

i think there may be some trickery or lapse's in memory.

when #715 went up for auction i located the rockstar guitars site with another 1000A in apr, and posted it at the DSO forum April 1.

http://www.dsoforums.net/.....topic=3108&hl=steinberger

#715 was from ramrods estate and the one at rockstarguitars is supposedly given to parish's stepson. i think they may have sent jerry 2 1000A, when they busted his #51. also the switch added, may be for an alembic stratoblaster as i have not seen any pics with 2 cables coming out of the 1000A for the FX loop, like the 500's.


maybe someone should try and get rockstar's serial number.

the story continues.........


peace,
waldo




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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 10/04/2007 at 11:34 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I'm a little confused by Waldo's post, but the guitar shown at Rockstar guitar is definitely #715 (weird black pickups and extra switch). No question there. What we don't know is if they had the guitar before or after the big auction. It has never been confirmed that they were the buyer. There is a photo of #715 still up on their site, but it doesn't appear the guitar is for sale. http://www.rockstarsguita.....tails.php?c=1&prod_id=444

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waldo041

PostPosted: 10/04/2007 at 11:56 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Boulderbean,

i too was also confused, that is why i posted my findings. i remember the description of rockstars bean as being given to parish's stepson from garcia, and the contents of the case are not the same as the one at ramrods auction. it was also for sale at the time i posted it at DSO's forum. the auction was still in place. the switch and pickups mean nothing because if there was 2 sent to him, they would have been identical as that is just how jerry liked them. someone needs to confirm the serial number at rockstars. i tried.

peace,
waldo

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JohnBR

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PostPosted: 10/04/2007 at 4:29 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

hey, by the way, the necks ARE interchangable. Unless it was just by chance, but I have swapped necks from artist to standard...not permanent, but was curious, so I checked it out and they fit like a glove.
And as one who has seen over 300 Dead shows and am a self proclaimed member of the GD "family" it is my OPINION that Jerry did own only one Artist. Also, my good brother tigerstrat's info can be taken as fact. Blair Jackson used him as a reference for his latest book: Grateful Dead Gear.
I can't believe I had never read this post before.
-peace

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Johnny B

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PostPosted: 10/04/2007 at 7:37 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I talked to Bill today about the weird single coil PU's in #715.
He said he made more than 1 set of the prototype black single coils, but only sent 1 guitar back to Jerry with those PU's in them. He doesn't know what happened to the other prototype PU's.

PS. NECK MACHINING....
The first 200 or so necks were machined & ribbed on the side. These were known as the "smuggler necks". (Go figure!). They were a pain to machine out, so they tried the machining the top side out. It was much easier and didn't affect the tone so that's how all the other necks were done.

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JohnBR

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PostPosted: 10/04/2007 at 8:07 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I have photos of both necks at home...will post next week. The early ones were two levels of solid aluminum. You could slide your hand through. The later ones seem to make more sense, hollowed out. but like I say, both necks went right into the other guitar...just some oddball info.

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000000

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PostPosted: 10/04/2007 at 10:49 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

-Post removed by request of the author-

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TBGURU

PostPosted: 10/05/2007 at 5:13 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I'm not sure if this helps, but I made an offer on that very same guitar about a year and a half ago. It was thru rockstar guitars. I was told that Parrish's son was the owner. I was confused when the same guitar was part of the ramrod auction. I think the offer I made was for 60k. I think they were looking to get 175k for the guitar at that time.

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waldo041

PostPosted: 10/05/2007 at 5:56 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

TBGURU,

did they tell you it was serial number?

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waldo041

PostPosted: 10/05/2007 at 8:02 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Interent Archive Wayback Machine produced the description of the one Rockstar Guitars was selling. August 2006 way before Ramrod's Estate Auction.

http://web.archive.org/we......php?c=1&cat=107&scat=212

also the guitar at the Bonham's Auction has a nick in the body and the one at Rockstar's is not visible, and should be if it were the same guitar. Rockstar's also had a tuning fork and an extra pickup in the case. the description of who Garcia actually gave them to are also different.

http://www.bonhams.com/cg.....7-03/07/7392486-101-1.jpg


peace,
waldo

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JohnBR

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PostPosted: 10/05/2007 at 8:27 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

OMG Vince, you are TOO kind. I would love that guitar and would set up a shrine to Jerry around it and say a prayer every morning. It is too awesome a prospect to consider. Anyways, wasn't that the one that just sold for $300,000 ? I'm sure someone is enjoying it. But, if someone has it and wants to sell or trade, LMK!!!
-peace

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BoulderBean

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PostPosted: 10/05/2007 at 8:53 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Waldo - I don't think there are 2 Garcia white artists with weird black single coils and the extra switch. Since he mostly played the artist with stock pickups (only one photo from 1978 shows the black epoxy jobs), JB's story of the original instrument being damaged rings true. The nick just isn't clear in the Rockstar photo. It is #715.

Based on the info from TBGURU it sounds like Rockstar guitars had #715 for sale, but couldn't get what Shurtleff (or whatever the hell Ramrod's son's name is) wanted.

Dank you can read through the whole thread and judge for yourself, it probably won't change your opinion. However, we've got photos of the original Garcia body including faded marks where the sticker was. We have photos of Garcia playing the guitar with the sticker. We also know he owned and played a white artist long before neck #715 was built. The evidence is pretty clear that Garcia had at least 2 and possibly three white TB artists.

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TBGURU

PostPosted: 10/05/2007 at 9:27 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I have seen at least 2 Garcia 1000a guitars. I remember hearing there were three. I am pretty sure that the Rockstar guitar and recent auction are the same guitar. The switch on the front being a tap for humbuckers which were once installed? I think there is a photo of Garcia w / another 1000a at a free concert in SF where he sports a leather coat. I know that Rockstar guitars was a broker in the deal and that my offer (while it was my first offer and too low) was passed on to the owner (who I was told the son of Parish). A call came back to me some weeks later, they left no message. I did not follow up, though I was reminded to and may live to regret not making a higher offer. I was thinking the guitar was worth 80K-100k, as long as it came with all kinds of provenance. I also remember that while it was coming through family, of family, of the GD, I was not totally confident without more info, photos and corroboration. I'm sure that the guitar was Jerry's but not 150K sure if you know what I mean? I will dig through my stuff, I'm sure I have the serial # written somewhere.

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waldo041

PostPosted: 10/05/2007 at 9:55 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

IMHO, i wouldn't say that the switch was a tap for the humbuckers because it only shows up on the single coil version #715 . #51 with the humbuckers had a sticker sorta in the same spot where the switch is on #715. the switch i believe is for an alembic stratoblaster, like he had on wolf before he installed the effects loop with an opamp buffer in late 77. wolf had single coils with an alembic stratoblaster, with the switch to boost the output.

the TB 500's have the first of this kind of setup. with NO good shots of #715 with 2 cables i am unsure if the switch was actually for the effects loop jerry devised. it would have to have the second stereo jack added to it to utilize the FX loop, like his 500's did. when wolf was fitted with humbucker and the fx loop it utilized coil tap switches for added boost. jerry loved single coils, but obviously liked to have the added boost feature also, first with a blaster, then with a coil tap on humbuckers.

http://dozin.com/jers/guitar/history.htm

peace,
waldo

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JohnBR

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Posts: 223
PostPosted: 10/05/2007 at 10:17 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Waldo, maybe this is not the right forum for this, but why did Jerry use the two Dimarzio Super 2s in his tiger guitar since he liked the set up of a strat and single coils. My tiger replica is back at resurrection for repair and I do not recall what it has on it....did tiger have coil taps for the humbuckers and did the single coil neck pup have a stratoblaster? I know that is considered the apex of Garcia's guitar set up: single coil in the neck and two super II's with UGB....but, off hand I don't recall if there is a coil tap or a blaster on the single?? Just curious.
And, an interesting tidbit for those who care: jerry's TIGER guitar weighed in at 13 and 1/2 pounds. Just a little bit heavier than the heaviest Bean! As we have basically concluded on the other forum, Gearheads, Garcia sounded like Garcia no matter what guitar he used. I think we have all reluctantly agreed that his incredible tone, while his unique rig set up did have much to do with it, came from his brain and fingers. In other words, his technique. There were some shows where he used borrowed gear, most notibly the Amsterdam show in 1981 (?) and with a G&L (I think) and some off the wall Fender, it was still the Jerry Garcia tone that some of us have spent a lifetime trying to reproduce.

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Ben

PostPosted: 10/15/2007 at 2:20 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

hey, check this out, the photo of Garcia on the home-page is a large horned artist....am I wrong? I own a white large horned and a white small horned, both artists and this one in the photo, with Jerry smiling definitely looks more like a large horned artist to me.....don't really want to hit a hornets nest with a stick, but I probably have with my last 2 posts...


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BoulderBean

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Posts: 303
PostPosted: 10/16/2007 at 8:48 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Nope Ben. Back to Travis Bean ID class for you. The photo on the home page is an artist with the original body shape. Thick body with narrow horns and stock pickups. I'm not aware of any photos of Garcia playing a wide horned artist.

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waldo041

PostPosted: 10/18/2007 at 1:27 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

TB500 pre FX loop
1976-08-04
http://tinyurl.com/2qplx7

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BoulderBean

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Posts: 303
PostPosted: 01/05/2008 at 9:38 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Here is a footnote to this discussion. As a number of folks have noted (and the photographic evidence shows) Garcia did own more than one white TB 1000A. I received a copy of Blair Jackson's "Grateful Dead Gear" book for x-mas and here is the relevant paragraph from page 162:

"It's possible that Garcia tested his Travis Bean during a handful of shows with the Legion of Mary the third week of September 1975. But the first photographic evidence of him playing it comes from the big September 28 free concert in Golden Gate Park. [FYI - lots of photos from that show have been posted. #715 hadn't bee built then]

"Evidently he liked the experience enough that the Bean (actually two different models) became his everyday guitar for the next two years, and in 1976 he actually appeared in ads endorsing it. In a 1978 Guitar Player interview (ironically AFTER he had gone back to playing the Wolf) he enthused, 'I'm the kind of player who generally plays one guitar at a time so I can learn its idiosyncrasies, and ideally the guitar that doesn't have idiosyncrasies is the one I like. I have a couple of Beans, and they are virtually identical in terms of their setup, neck, and fingerboard, so there's no question of regaining chops in the event that one breaks down on the road or something. No other production guitar is like that - they're all completely different. That level of consistency in the Beans means a lot to me....As far as I'm concerned, the Travis Bean is the finest production guitar on the market."

On page 161 there is a photo from the 1975 Golden Gate Park show where the small silver sticker between the control knobs can clearly be seen. That's the same spot where the paint is faded in the photos of the white body of #51 than Johnny B posted a while back.

To the buyer of #715 - you got a Garcia guitar alright, but not the one the auction house purported it to be.

Thanks for indulging me on this topic yet again! Happy New Year Beaners.

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jackaroe

PostPosted: 01/06/2008 at 9:11 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

indeed a fun read. I just thought i'd add this point since noone else said it. I suppose it's real possible that the silver pickup covers were on those singles for a time since they were molded into them but removed at some point maybe by Jerome himself in efforts to not interfere any miniscule bit w/ magnetic flow? This may be part of the problem IMHO. and yeah i do believe they could have sent him several as he was a huge endorser and probably scoffed at being paid by them .. my first show of anykind was presided ove by the pickguard reflection of a TB1000A Warner theatre 78 . A wonderous show remixed by jerry and returned to radio discjockey in bethesda... happy new year!

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JohnnyB

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Posts: 29
PostPosted: 01/06/2008 at 3:42 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

The pickup covers were used as a mold. They were not sent out mounted on the guitar. Covers may have been put on the pickups after Garcia got the guitar... Maybe not.....

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JohnBR

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PostPosted: 01/12/2008 at 9:20 AM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

first video I have ever seen of Jerry playing his Bean:
http://youtube.com/watch?.....E8eUwC9lk&feature=related
(soundcheck)

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charlie

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Posts: 250
PostPosted: 01/12/2008 at 1:51 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

Hey dank...cool videos! Check out the other songs from the same session too. Stella Blue in particular has some great parts where they are working out harmonies etc.

I have a couple observations about the Travis Bean jerry is playing. I think this MIGHT be a 3rd artist (not #51 or #715) and here is why:

This guitar does not have the sticker between the knobs from the 1975 show and I think that sticker had to be on there more than a year to leave the shadow we can see on #51 body.

This also appears to be the narrow nut version (1 1/2 inch) as opposed to the wide nut version (1 3/4 inch) #715 is definately wider. If you look at the neck on several of the closeups in these videos I think you can tell it is the narrow version. I have both widths and there is a distinct difference in the shape of the headstock where it tapers down to the nut. The guitar in these videos has the extra tapered look that is consistent with the 1 1/2 inch nut. So in my opinion this is either #51 with the sticker removed or a 3rd guitar.

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thx1138

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PostPosted: 08/05/2015 at 12:02 PM    Post subject: RE:#715 to be Auctioned link

I had no idea that TB500s didn't see production til 1977.
Anyway, Garcia had already requested from Doug Irwin in 1973 or 1974 a "more Stratocaster-like guitar" (which of course became the Wolf). However, the Wolf was damaged pretty severely by two falls into concrete floored orchestra pits in halls in Europe during the 1974 European tour. So, Garcia bought what he later actually advertised (with his photo in the ad copy) as "the best production guitar ever made". I have owned both a TB1000A (706) and a TB500 (?). The TB500 was eminently more playable. (Both guitars I bought in the San Francisco Bay Area in the late-1980s for between $250 and $375. When Iater saw a three-pickup white TB500 for $895 it was heart-rending--that was completely beyond my finances at the time (Bean said he would never make a custom TB; I guess he gave-in and made a few 3-pickup TB500s (apparently all white bodied with black Delrin-coated necks)). Anyway, the TB1000A was simply terribly uncomfortable to play (it caused eventual pain after an hour or two of playing in my fretting hand's inner thumb joint (where my thumb bone contacted the Les Paul-type "fat neck" profile). And the 1 5/8" Gibson-type narrow fingerboard was also a poor match for my style. I took a $2500 bank transfer from Australia; made a wooden box for it and sent it to the bloke sight-unseen. The pickguard fell off in transit; but he was easily able to reglue it--and it gave him a chance to see the original unyellowed white. He loved it.
The TB500 met an unfortunate end. An incompetent San Francisco guitar shop cut deep notched directly into the aluminum when dressing the fret ends. I don't know how they could be that muddle-headed; but that effectively destroyed both its playability (horrible feel of sharp, rough gouges around I think fret 10 to the last on the high-E side: an utter tragedy (I was indisposed at the time and the guitar was entrusted to my brother (immense mistake); they had a kind of screwed-up (pick-up holes routed out all over the body) Bob Weir Signature Modulus Blackknife for sale there for about $800. I'd've demanded that in recompense on the fact that they destroyed the TB500's resale value through their total incompetence on a simple, common, refret job (the fingerboard of a TB500 is, of course, rosewood and unbound, it should have been a very easy job to perfectly do); and a TB500 is worth several times a neck-through body Modulus Blackknife with a messed-up cocobolo top and an alder body. Believe me: I'd've left that shop with the Modulus and dumped the useless (there's no filling gouges in aluminum) Bean there and left in a one helluva huff.
Anyway, I'm responding to a years old post; I know Garcia's TB Artist sold for $250,000--I just though I'd leave my current thoughts should they be of interest to anyone (I am a highly-knowledgeable Johns Hopkins-educated physics major with an immense wealth of information on materials science and acoustics). I wonder what happened to his TB500(s)? He must've had more than one.
Take care, all.
Til next time.
C.C.

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