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Kid Sapphire Music

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peggyfoster

Joined:
20 Jun 2008
Posts: 83
PostPosted: 01/22/2009 at 6:24 PM    Post subject: Kid Sapphire Music link

I have old cassette tapes (1/4 inch) of Kid Sapphire playing Travis Beans on original tunes in 1976 / 1977. My next project is to play them into my computer and digitize in Protools so that I can make CD's for Admin, Willard, Al, Randy, Marc, Travis, me, whoever else wants one.

Do any of you have advice about how to handle the 30-year-old cassette tapes? They are fragile and I've been told that the magnetic layer might flake off the first time I play them. I will run another old tape first, to make sure that all my connections are correct (maybe I'll sacrifice an old Elvis Presley tape as there probably aren't any Beans on his albums). My recording teacher has heard some engineers say they warm up old cassette tapes in the oven first, about 125 degrees, but he doesn't remember how long and he hasn't tried it himself. I will also check audio restoration tech forums for advice.

This might seem a little off the topic of TB Guitars forum, it's only relevant because it's Bean music I'm trying to salvage and it's likely that some of you are audiophiles. Thanks, Peggy

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Joefish

Joined:
11 Dec 2008
Posts: 106
PostPosted: 01/22/2009 at 10:20 PM    Post subject: RE:Kid Sapphire Music link

Hi Peggy, I'm getting closer to remastering my 24 year old (2 inch 16 track) tapes. It appears that the tapes go to the oven prior to their last pass! There's a lot of information out there.

You might want to check out the following: http://electrical.com/

Joe

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peggyfoster

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Posts: 83
PostPosted: 01/24/2009 at 12:45 AM    Post subject: RE:Kid Sapphire Music link

Thank you, Joe Fish!

And good luck with your project.

Peggy

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Joefish

Joined:
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Posts: 106
PostPosted: 01/24/2009 at 7:08 AM    Post subject: Warning: link

Peggy, I decided to do some reading on this issue with regard to cassette tapes after about an hour, I found the following:

First of all, baking will destroy cassette tapes. They do not have sticky
shed.

Secondly, when you transplanted the tape, you moved it to a case that
is slightly different in shape, so the azimuth changed. You will need
to reset the azimuth on the playback machine.
http://www.tomshardware.c.....case-change-fidelity-tape

also, here are a few other good sites I found

http://www.tapebaking.com/


Cassette Tape http://masterdigital.com/24bit/analogtape.htm

Analog cassette tape presents special problems because the tape is only 3.81mm (0.150 inch) wide and is recorded at 1-7/8 ips.

Mildew on cassette tape will cause dropouts, and old splices at the leader will often break. When a splice breaks at the leader tape, it's usually practical to repair the splice and then put the repaired tape and hubs in a new shell.

Adjusting for proper azimuth alignment is essential when playing back cassette tape, because tape speed is slow compared to professional tape formats. Even a small azimuth misalignment will really compromise audio playback from cassettes.

Cassette recorder/players vary considerably in speed, and it's not uncommon for a machine's speed to be off considerably. Normally when a cassette tape is played on the same machine that also recorded it, then this problem will not occur.

http://www.audio-restorations.com/

http://www.stevehoffman.t.....ve/index.php/t-12448.html

http://radiomagonline.com.....ing_magnetic_recording_2/

http://www.airmedia.org/PageInfo.php?PageID=197

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape_baking

Joe



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peggyfoster

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Posts: 83
PostPosted: 01/25/2009 at 11:03 PM    Post subject: RE:Kid Sapphire Music link

Thanks a bunch more, Joefish for the good advice!

In regards to writing, I have been writing anecdotes about Runaways etc. on Facebook, Peggy Foster Bassplayer. I will keep writing there as time permits, and if I figure out how to write paragraphs on My Space, I will move it over to Foggy Pester My Space. MTV is making a movie about The Runaways; not a documentary, a story revolving around the conflicts between Joan and Cherie.

Peggy



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peggyfoster

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Posts: 83
PostPosted: 02/16/2009 at 1:56 PM    Post subject: RE:Kid Sapphire Music link

I can hardly believe it went so well ... I was nervous, I prepared the tapes according to everyone's advice, rewinding them by hand with a pencil eraser ... I got 3 cassette tapes input into protools and they sound as 'good' as cassette tapes ever sounded ... I can hear every note of the Travis Bean guitars and bass. It took less than a minute for my ears to adjust and start filtering out the 70's hiss-rumble. I did some editing and got 13 songs with 13 guitar solos.

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rlrlrl

Joined:
24 Dec 2007
Posts: 260
PostPosted: 02/16/2009 at 10:26 PM    Post subject: RE:Kid Sapphire Music link

on that hiss-rumble subject, I've used this program izotope recently to work on some noisy recordings. it doesn't work perfectly, but really helped a lot. there are a lot of different options and ways to use it, and I think you can use it in a demo/trial mode for free too.

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/rx/

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theNewTerritories

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Posts: 34
PostPosted: 02/17/2009 at 1:00 PM    Post subject: RE:Kid Sapphire Music link

Very interesting stuff-
I have used low pass filters to tame tape hiss a little to good success, but in all honesty, I think that tape hiss adds a lot of character to recordings and I am usually saddened when people edit out the intrinsic qualities of the medium the recordings appear on.

This is a huge subject of debate, I know, but for me personally my history of listening to, playing and recording music has been almost all been done on tape.
I only started using digital very late (only a few years ago) and found that nothing sounded right anymore. Once I switched back to tape everything sounded the way I was used to it (and imprinted into liking best) sounding again. In fact, it took me quite a while to adjust to recording to digital, when I first started I was still trying to record in the same way I used to on tape!

Some younger guys I worked with, who had never (or were too young to remember) heard some cassettes I was playing were incredibly disrespectful to the quality of the sound and I immediately found myself becoming incredibly angry and defensive.

I for one leave in tape hiss now a days and say **** it to people who can't hang with a little hiss, but maybe it is just me- hell, I even still use VHS and I know that it looks a little fuzzy in comparison, but it is what I grew up with and am familiar with. There is no real argument I am trying to make, I am not trying to crusade to convince anyone that tape hiss is the way to go, but for me it is what is familiar- just thought I would add my opinion for whatever good it may be.

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Joefish

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Posts: 106
PostPosted: 02/17/2009 at 5:26 PM    Post subject: RE:Kid Sapphire Music link

theNewTerritories I went off on my friend Pete about digital recording he sent me an email ..." This is a lecture Steve Albini gave at a college . you might be amused by what he says about tape vs. digital recording."

http://www.mtsu.edu/~nada.....loads/Stevealbiniweb.html


Joe

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rlrlrl

Joined:
24 Dec 2007
Posts: 260
PostPosted: 02/17/2009 at 8:59 PM    Post subject: RE:Kid Sapphire Music link

Oh I totally agree. I'm an analog snob all the way. I can't stand most new recordings, even some with perfectly good music. A record made on 2" tape sounds and feels totally different. I feel privileged to have had the opportunity to make several records the classic way. I shouldn't even get started here, because it's a favorite talk of my frequent rambles (the art of listening, structural media issues, etc etc!)

Of course digital has its merits, especially when you can subvert it for creative purposes. The reason I recommended that izotope program was that I recently recorded a show of mine on a portable digital recorder, and it was set too hot and had moments of horrible digital clipping, which, unlike analog distortion, is really unlistenable. So I used that program to get rid of some of that, and it worked decently well, to my surprise.

While we're on Albini, y'all must know this famous piece, right?
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

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peggyfoster

Joined:
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Posts: 83
PostPosted: 02/19/2009 at 2:05 PM    Post subject: RE:Kid Sapphire Music link

Fantastic article - sums up the war stories many old-time musicians have told me. It gets worse ... the following January, the IRS sends them a bill saying they made $50,000 and they owe $20,000 in taxes! They about die of a heart attack because they only got a few hundred or thousand from their record company and it's all spent. Record companies do "creative bookkeeping": they keep an account for each musician, charge all the income from record sales to them, and pay all the record company's expenses from it (it's in the contract that they can do that). Their report to the IRS looks like the musicians made and spent the money. If the group's 2nd album is successful, they pay the IRS for the back taxes, penalties, interest, etc. If it isn't, the group usually breaks up and the musicians file for bankrupcy. If the 3rd album is successful, the musicians start getting enough money to buy houses, sports cars, etc. Guys who survived and made 10 or 20 albums laugh about it.

One good thing about computers is that they enable musicians to be independent artists. Record companies are very worried about their future.


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peggyfoster

Joined:
20 Jun 2008
Posts: 83
PostPosted: 02/19/2009 at 2:20 PM    Post subject: RE:Kid Sapphire Music link

BTW ... I spoke with Travis and Marc last week - I'm sending them copies of the Kid Sapphire tapes - and I'm trading phone messages with Glen/Willard - he wants a tape too. I want to make sure the copyrights are up to date before I send out any more. Peggy

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theNewTerritories

Joined:
13 May 2008
Posts: 34
PostPosted: 02/20/2009 at 2:48 PM    Post subject: RE:Kid Sapphire Music link

Thanks for the Albini stuff- I had seen the writing he'd done and know about his preference for analog recording, but I couldn't get the link to the lecture to work- is anyone else having this problem or do I just have an outdated computer?

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rlrlrl

Joined:
24 Dec 2007
Posts: 260
PostPosted: 02/20/2009 at 3:06 PM    Post subject: RE:Kid Sapphire Music link

I have a preference for analog computers. Let me tell you, it's hard to get a Travis Bean to show up on an abacus.

That video isn't loading for me either. I'm just getting the Quicktime "Q" symbol. Maybe I need to wait longer for it to download the whole huge thing?

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Joefish

Joined:
11 Dec 2008
Posts: 106
PostPosted: 02/20/2009 at 7:58 PM    Post subject: RE:Kid Sapphire Music link

Folks, the link was working when I posted after searching the mtsu.ed site (Middle Tennessee State University), it appears that they took the video down.

It was excellent! Basically, it was a lecture about working in the recording industry. He explained why he felt digital recording is not appropriate for music. He also spoke about demos and about how they were not really to demonstrate the music to whomever, rather they were keepsakes.

Joe



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Joefish

Joined:
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Posts: 106
PostPosted: 04/10/2010 at 8:42 PM    Post subject: RE:Kid Sapphire Music link

Take 2: "This is a lecture Steve Albini gave at a college . you might be amused by what he says about tape vs. digital recording."


http://www.viddler.com/ex.....lore/ChrisgNYC/videos/14/


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