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Forum :: General Discussion

Shielding


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mcmxlvxvii

Joined:
08 Jan 2016
Posts: 2
PostPosted: 01/16/2018 at 1:26 AM    Post subject: Shielding link

Ok this might be a dumb question. But I've built a couple of guitars and been told I need to shield the body control cavity with copper tape. I've never seen any shielding on the inside of a Bean. Anyone know why they didn't shield them, or didn't need to?
Thanks.

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FranKrause

Joined:
24 Jan 2016
Posts: 26
PostPosted: 01/23/2018 at 9:53 AM    Post subject: RE:Shielding link

It wouldn't hurt, but the yellow-striped wiring is all shielded (braided ground shielding is encasing the positive signal) and the back cover is stainless steel that's grounded to the casing of a potentiometer, so they're pretty well shielded as-is.

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FranKrause

Joined:
24 Jan 2016
Posts: 26
PostPosted: 01/23/2018 at 9:55 AM    Post subject: RE:Shielding link

Also, the humbuckers cut down on noise. There's some hum with the 500, but it has 1/4" steel plates behind the pickups, so overall they've got some shielding right out of the box. Old Fenders have a ton of shielding, but they're also wiring up everything with cloth-insulated single-conductor wiring that has to be run through shielded cavities.

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mcmxlvxvii

Joined:
08 Jan 2016
Posts: 2
PostPosted: 01/25/2018 at 12:44 PM    Post subject: RE:Shielding link

Thanks Fran - that explains everything!
Much appreciated...(by the way, we have chatted on FB Aluminium Axes. I'm Martin Crook. Your last build looks terrific!)

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FranKrause

Joined:
24 Jan 2016
Posts: 26
PostPosted: 01/25/2018 at 2:47 PM    Post subject: RE:Shielding link

Thanks, Martin! I've got a couple Travis Bean restorations to sort through, and then hopefully I'll get to start on a new original design after that. The last one was a really fun project!

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soundguruman

Joined:
11 Feb 2018
Posts: 2
PostPosted: 02/11/2018 at 10:21 AM    Post subject: RE:Shielding link

I have owned 5 Travis Bean Guitars. All these guitars were single coil pickups. Although, the large size of the PU makes you think that it's hum-bucking...it's not.
(1X artist, 2X standards, 1X wedge, 1X longhorn bass.)
It's a big beefy single coil pickup....take the cover off, and see for yourselves.
Therefore, no shielding will stop the buzzing noise. There is no such thing as a noise-less single coil pickup.
But, shielding will stop "some" of the noise....never all of it.
However there "is" a matching transformer, which can balance and cancel the noise from a single coil PU.
https://www.edcorusa.com/buzzbucker The edcor buzz-bucker.
OR a dummy coil can be added inside the guitar to balance out the buzzing.
(just like a Stratocaster)
http://ironstone-guitar-p.....e-coil-pickup-dummy-coil/
There are numerous methods, but shielding really isn't one of them.

If you need to know any electronic answers, you can message me. I have worked with guitars and amps more than 40 years.

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FranKrause

Joined:
24 Jan 2016
Posts: 26
PostPosted: 02/11/2018 at 11:33 AM    Post subject: RE:Shielding link

Soundguruman - thanks for the info! I hadn't heard of the wide-range-sized pickups being single-coils in disguise - I wonder if any of them are set up as single-coils with a dummy coil sharing the enclosure? Most of the internal pictures I've seen have looked like this: http://www.a6string.net/MI/Pickups/travis.jpg

My artist was put together after the factory closed down, so it wound up with some modified Fender wide-range pickups, I haven't taken apart any actual TB humbuckers myself.

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FranKrause

Joined:
24 Jan 2016
Posts: 26
PostPosted: 02/11/2018 at 12:06 PM    Post subject: RE:Shielding link

Soundguruman - I do have an electronic question for you - all the TB pickups I've seen have a steel mounting plate that's at least .25" thick - sometimes two 1/8" thick plated held together. Does this do something that a single 1/8" or 1/16" thick steel plate wouldn't do? I'm trying to make some pickups that sound close to the ones in my TB500, but I wouldn't mind making something a little less physically heavy.

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humbuck

Joined:
05 Mar 2008
Posts: 64
PostPosted: 02/12/2018 at 9:09 AM    Post subject: RE:Shielding link

The TB standard and artist that i have seen all have two single coil in one shielding which makes a humbucker.
I have one factory made TB which has a coil split and two push pulls to switch.
I think there where a few humbucker sized pu's made for Jerry Garcia which had a single coil inside. They where mounted in his Artist.
Apart from this the PU's inside the Standard and the Artist models all usually have humbuckers. Correct me if i am wrong.


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soundguruman

Joined:
11 Feb 2018
Posts: 2
PostPosted: 02/12/2018 at 1:05 PM    Post subject: RE:Shielding link

The plate under the bridge PU raises it to be as close to the strings as possible without interference. By doing this, the sustain and sensitivity will be greatly increased. Guitar player will usually like this!

The plate under the neck PU will lower the PU because being too close to the strings will produce a low frequency overload (the neck PU will be louder). The strings at the neck PU vibrate much more (much wider) than the strings at the bridge. In many cases the neck PU should be lowered to avoid the low frequency overload...and balance the output level with the bridge PU. (that's the way I think of it)

Your material (steel) can be changed to aluminum to lower the weight-maybe even a wooden shim would work OK but I haven't tried it.
A lighter metal should work OK. I don't see any reason why not.

I see in the picture a hum-bucking PU which obviously has 2 coils.
But none of the TBs I had were hum-bucking, they were all single coils.
So if you have humbuckers already, the only remaining improvement "is" to add shielding in the areas that are not already blocked by the aluminum.
(TB also used a shielded jack which was stock on my guitars)

And this does help if you are using a very high gain amplifier (Marshall / Boogie etc...)
If you are playing low gain (like a Fender Princeton etc) you may not ever realize the need.

With today's mega gain amps.. or distortion pedals / preamps: humbucking and shielding is going to help you. But with single coil, shielding is still not going to lower the noise appreciably....hence, install the dummy coils.
I bought one of the earliest Artist models which was single coil...

But I have not seen a huge amount of TB pickups, but obviously he did make humbuckers at some point.
(thanks for posting that picture cause I had never seen one that was humbucking)

Shielding: Shielding paint / mu metal. Multiple layers is much more effective. Plain copper or aluminum foil is not as effective as mu metal foil or multiple layers of shield.
(mu metal is specially designed to block magnetic fields) And there are other shielding foils that block magnetic fields from speakers.
But what you are especially interested in is: blocking "AC" magnetic fields. This is the type EMI that produces the buzzing noises.

What you are dealing with: around every electrical wire which carries current, there is a magnetic field. This includes the AC wiring inside your walls....inside fluorescent lights there is a ballast transformer.
The magnetic field from the amplifier power transformer.
You are trying to stop that AC magnetic field from "cutting thru" the audio wiring and controls in the guitar.

Sure appreciate the discussion!
There is very little players who are familiar with these exquisite TB guitars...one of the finest designed / built guitars that I have ever seen!
The minute I saw my first TB, I was in love.
Nice to know that tradition is being kept alive by enthusiastic musicians. Hats off to you guys.


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