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Hmmm...so whats the value

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sol

PostPosted: 01/15/2007 at 9:31 PM    Post subject: Hmmm...so whats the value link

OK...
hypothetically

what do we all think the following are worth

TB 500
TB 1000S
TB 1000S (Color Finish)

I'm curious to see what the rest of the Bean world thinks


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rob

PostPosted: 01/16/2007 at 6:25 AM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

500 - not that i've ever seen one, but i'm guess in the 5,000 range.

1000S - i think around 2,500, but ebay thinks more.

1000S color - between 2,500-3,000, but i think natural wood looks better

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rob

PostPosted: 01/16/2007 at 6:25 AM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

500 - not that i've ever seen one, but i'm guess in the 5,000 range.

1000S - i think around 2,500, but ebay thinks more.

1000S color - between 2,500-3,000, but i think natural wood looks better

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sol

PostPosted: 01/28/2007 at 7:48 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

so does anybody have any thoughts on the white bean signed by mr. bean himself going for $4,707.50 on e-bay
http://cgi.ebay.com/1979-.....ZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think this was a little ridiculous...not that I hate seeing these guitars be appreciated for what they are worth...

Does this mean - 1000S
low condition $2,000
Bad color $3,000
Mint color $4,000
Mr.Beans sig $707

Thoughts anybody?



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Kevin

PostPosted: 01/29/2007 at 4:35 AM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

This stuff is going crazy. I bought my first 2000 for 400.00 shipped and passed on a 500 for 650.00. A few years later I bought a Wedge #12 for 1750.00 and sold it for 2500.00. I was stoked. That same Wedge sold on Ebay a few months back for 6000.00. Thats just dumb. It was signed by Bean and Mcelwee. Im glad they are worth something, but for all of us who really love them, now we cant afford them nor take them on tour for fear of them being stolen. I long for the old days, I remember when Kramers fetched only 250.00 or so. I fear Beans will soon be in the Veleno range of prices.

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rob

PostPosted: 01/29/2007 at 6:23 AM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

i totally agree, kevin. it took me long enough just to acquire ONE, let alone the 15 that i would unrealistically want. luckily, there are dudes like you who provide for dudes like me that can't find 500's. (i'm in mouthbreather, and your check is in the mail)

i say we all start pretending we don't care and that they suck and hopefully the prices will fall....and we can strike!

also, all this from the man who has TWO of the reissues from '97. talk about an expensive bean!

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holmes

Joined:
29 Feb 2008
Posts: 182
PostPosted: 01/29/2007 at 6:49 AM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

i think its shit that they cost so much. i honestly thought they would peak at 2000 dollars. i got into beans about a year to late late. i think i got my bean in 2004 or 2005? cant remember. but
i remember even then i saw a signed wedge go for like $2600 and a 1000 gor for like $1100 dollars. i should have got that one in hindsight. even ******* logo pick up era 500's go for $5000. its a shame. i cant see the prices going anywhere but up either unfortunatly. but if anyway feels like selling me a 500 for $2500 your more than welcome!

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sol

PostPosted: 01/29/2007 at 11:40 AM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

Agreed everybody (Kevin, Rob, Holmes) on all accounts...

To dito Kevin...I sold my 500 because there was no ******* way I was walking out of the house...to a gig...were I'll knock back a few beers...and possibly not have my eye on my shit...and get ripped off...

I thought what I paid for the 500 was crazy...I think what I sold it for was even crazier...

If I have to I'll ******* unload my 1000 and buy another guitar...I will...more business for Kevin I guess...

I do think it's interesting that colored 1000 are getting a vintage fenderesqu color premium of 2x

Get Mr. Bean to sign my neck
Strip the finish and paint it tie-dye
and I'll say that it was Jerries

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rob

PostPosted: 01/29/2007 at 5:32 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

man, i can't wait til "johan"'s 500 goes on ebay so i can see the people beat the shit out of each other for it (only to not meet the reserve)

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holmes

Joined:
29 Feb 2008
Posts: 182
PostPosted: 01/30/2007 at 4:55 AM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

i offered him something substantial. he didnt take which is far enough to be honest, i think he is gonna want/and get alot for that thing. if theres anyone in england who wants to unload one for Ģ2000 give me a ring-a-ding. i cant afford import charges from elsewhere you see.

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Johan

PostPosted: 01/30/2007 at 7:31 AM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

I understand everyone of you, of course itīs insanely irritating that some of the beans go to rich collectors instead of actual players who love the sound and feel of the guitar, and actually play them. One has to understand though that an extremely original-sounding guitar, existing in only 350 ex (probably less!?) is going to go up in value. i too think itīs sad, kind of a curse. if i had bought this guitar in a pawnshop for 20 bucks and never knew the actual value iīd never ever sell it. but now im knee-deep in debt and really need the money, which I see would be the only reason one would part with a 500, in my ears the best guitar ever made. Itīs a hard world out there, especially for us bean-lovers.

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holmes

Joined:
29 Feb 2008
Posts: 182
PostPosted: 01/30/2007 at 9:45 AM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

hey its far enough man, debts are debts. ill get one eventually but i just cant afford to bring one into the country due to all the ******* tax. hopefully someone will put up one for sale in england. oh and that battered 1000s with the broken off fret board just went for 1600.

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eric

PostPosted: 01/30/2007 at 11:33 AM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

i noticed that trashed one went for $1600 like holmes said and just then did i realize that i need to push this "dream" to the back burner. i have seen a couple buyers buying most of the beans that appear on ebay too. i notice a lot of sellers setting higher minimum bids for Kramers too. last may i saw a couple 450g's go for just over $500 and i saw one the other day sell for $1100. ridiculous.

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GG

Joined:
05 May 2006
Posts: 96
PostPosted: 01/30/2007 at 12:24 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

I almost hate to add to this discussion, but I just bought TB500 # 263 from a seller in Japan who posted it for sale here for only $2700. It's black with no stress cracks at all. I consider myself very very lucky. In fact I paid more for my white 1000 last year! Have faith, deals do pop up now and again.

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rob

PostPosted: 01/30/2007 at 12:54 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

so you're the guy who bought capt. translation's 500 from japan. i hope that money helped his sick son...eek!

i shouldnt speak either. i won that mass auction from england, fetching me tb2000 412 (finished black, mint condition) and a '70s epiphone et-270 for less than 1800.

believe in deals. and also, whenever you are in a small town for any reason, check the classifieds, check the pawnshops. small town dudes tend not to know what they have. i talked to the guitarist from french toast (dischord) and he got a marshall 2x12 combo tube amp from like '65 in mint condition for less than 500. buhh.

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GG

Joined:
05 May 2006
Posts: 96
PostPosted: 01/30/2007 at 12:59 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

I found a red 1000 on craigslist in reno for $2000, I passed on it but it seems like a good deal as well. Classifieds are great if you've got the time, and the net obviously simplifies things.

My best to Rui and his son. The guitar is amazing, and I'm glad I can help.

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eric

PostPosted: 01/30/2007 at 2:01 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

yeah, i can't complain too much, i found a Traynor Mark 3 2x12 complete with working vintage Mullard power tubes from the San Francisco Goodwill for $150. this was an ebay auction too, thank goodness it was pickup only and didn't say Traynor anywhere in the listing. congrats to you Rob, i talked to the guy about that bulk auction and he was super nice, and i saw the pics of the 2000 bass, it sure is a beauty, i just don't play bass (as much as guitar). i will keep the faith that i will own a bean someday, i just need to quit watching ebay on a daily basis, i could definitely find a better use for my time.

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sol

PostPosted: 01/30/2007 at 4:07 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

I believe a new era of insanity has begun...

I was thinking to myself...broken black bean...maybe....just maybe I'll toss $1k...To have the fretboard reworked (or new fretboard with new frets)...frets releveled...nut reseated... I'd probably be looking at $1.5k for a guitar that should technicaly have no value because it's completely ****** up...but I'm a player, not a collector, so what do I know...

If my egc is any good...I'll sell my tb1000 and have either Kevin or greg build me my dream aluminum telecaster

Johan...when you going to bay the 500...I can't wait to see the stupid amount of money you get for it...

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d18man

PostPosted: 01/30/2007 at 6:52 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

Sorry to be such a capitalist, but these guitars are still cheap at $2500 or so. Early 70's strats go for twice that and more. Same with Tele Thinlines that have the Bean type humbucker pickups. There are lots of good, newish imported player guitars out there for cheap but if you want a vintage classic guitar that is 30 years old I say $2000 - $3000 is still cheap. Sorry, but that's just the real world and it ain't that bad if you really think about it. Hey when these guitars were new they were around $1000. Inflation over 30 years probably puts them around $3000 anyway. I think you should all be happy they are not 10 - 15k like a 1970 strat!

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sol

PostPosted: 01/30/2007 at 9:54 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

$1,000 guitar Inflation 30 years = $1,800 ... though I haven't accounted for volatility in the inflation in the economy...but your point is taken - my dream Rosewood Tele is out of my reach at $15k...

The problem I always see with your argument is that most people who really want to play them can't afford them anymore...

I am insisting that an object must have a function (ie.g. all the people who would want to play a bean, you and your 70's strat, me and my sexy rosewood tele), a socialist argument...and we are discussing this in purely capitalistic terms

I'm not being a curmudgeon...I swear...

I'm just amazed at were these prices are going

sol
capitalist (in theory only)



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rob

PostPosted: 01/31/2007 at 6:10 AM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

is now the offical longest thread in the history of TBG.com? weird.

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eric

PostPosted: 02/08/2007 at 12:49 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

well. it looks like 500's are only worth $3500 today...
for those who weren't watching: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eB.....em=160081043526&rd=1&rd=1

while inventories are extremely low for these guitars i think it's still a niche market with a limited number of buyers too. no offense rob, but i also don't believe speculating about market values on a discussion forum benefits the Bean seeker that is a player instead of a collector because then uneducated sellers use these forums as a pricing guide. i've seen Bean's sell this year for far below your estimates so i honestly think you are over-valueing them. however, with something so limited in availability in combination with impatient and uninformed ebayers i'm sure we'll see some sales prices that seem high from time to time.

-still dreaming for a 1000s i'd never let go of...just waiting for one at the right price

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rob

PostPosted: 02/08/2007 at 1:50 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

i'm sorry, am i the only person talking about the value of these guitars on this thread? in fact, i think it was the purpose of a thread i didn't even start.

and about my estimates, they are based on what these guitars sell for. i'm not estimating anything. the buyers determine the market and if "impatient and uninformed ebayers" buy them all for 3-4k than that is what they are worth. plain and simple. the ******* BROKEN 1000s went for almost 1500. that should tell you something.

also, when i see these guitars in "informed" retail stores they go for at least 2500. these are just facts. sure, you can still get them for incredible value. i got my tb2000 for around $750. but that is not the whole market. you get those deals when people don't know anything about what they have.

as for players vs. collectors: you can't play them if you can't buy them. im not saying its right to just buy them up and not play them just to drive up aftermarket value (see the three or four impatient and uninformed ebayers who seem to be buying a majority of these guitars up) im just saying that people who pay 3000 want to play them too. really bad.

i dont know, i just dont see how arguing about it changes anything. sol asked a question, i gave him my opinion. end of story.




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holmes

Joined:
29 Feb 2008
Posts: 182
PostPosted: 02/08/2007 at 2:03 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

ive been into beans for about 3 years now, and ive only ever seen 6 tb500's. ive never seen one go for less than 3 grand - on ebay at least. i cant believe that a 1000s, rifinshed with a ******* sawn off horn is going for $1511. i cant see going much higher than that though.

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eric

PostPosted: 02/08/2007 at 2:27 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

sorry rob, i wasn't trying to come across as argumentative or accusing you for driving up bean prices. i was just trying to demostrate that i thought your figures, from your market research, were high compared to what i have seen, and thought that might give another perspective bean buyer more information, that a 500 can sell for way under $5k. just watch though, the next one will go for $6k... i've been watching bean's and kramers on ebay for a year now and prices have varied widely. i have an idea based on multiple sales of what models are worth what and hope to use that information so i get a fair deal and don't get caught in a bidding war with someone who read on here that a 1000s goes for whatever amount. i've done my research, but still might not ewer own onem, cause somebody else bidding against me might want it more than me, oh well, i'll live...

the only reason i linked the thread to you was because the 500 sold today and i remembered your link mentioned 500's.

your players vs. collectors comment makes perfect sense to me as well. whoever is the highest bidder gets the bean and sets new market value (which can flucuate by a large margin with scarce items).

like i said above, sorry i wasn't trying to single you out in the thread. i should have used more careful wording there. hopefully no offense taken.

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eric

PostPosted: 02/08/2007 at 2:34 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

the trashed black one and this one selling for what they did is just stupid...

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rob

PostPosted: 02/08/2007 at 3:10 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

eric, no hard feelings. i just wanted to explain myself since my original post was a little vague. i agree with you for the most part. i wish we could all buy 500s for what they cost in '76 ($500.) but, the world isnt perfect. oh well, luckily we have this community where we can collectively try to right the ebay wrongs. people who truly love these instruments should get the priveledge of owning and playing them.

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James

PostPosted: 02/08/2007 at 6:44 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

Hi,

Pricing these guitars is obviously very difficult and there are many factors to take into account. I live in England and I have just found a 1000s and a 1000a for sale for Ģ2000 each. Both guitars are in good condition and completely original except the 1000a is missing the original bridge pickup - it has been replaced with a Gibson humbucker. Considering the Ģ/$ exchange rate etc, what do you think of these prices? Also, in your opinion, which is best, the a or s? What is the difference exactly?


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d18man

PostPosted: 02/08/2007 at 6:56 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

I think at the current exchange rate that is about 4k US dollars which is a little high but not unheard of for nice clean and "pretty" examples. i still don't get all this belly aching about values. Anyone that thinks a Bean at 2000 -3500 is overpriced does not understand the vintage guitar market. Beans are such great guitars and they are true vintage classics with a unique and killer tone. I agree with the poster who said the only ones you will find cheaper will be from people who don't know what they have.

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eric

PostPosted: 02/08/2007 at 8:58 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

from all the watching on ebay i have done, $4000 is very high for these models. no bellyaching here, just straight facts. the $1000-$2000 you save by listening to me and being patient could be the easiest money you ever make. the only factor i think that could justify you buying one there is not being able to find someone to ship internationally, within the time parameter you wish to purchase.

you can also read more about the different bean models on the history tab on this site.

one thing i don't think anyone on this message board would ever debate is how astonishingly unique and cool Beans are.

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GG

Joined:
05 May 2006
Posts: 96
PostPosted: 02/08/2007 at 10:09 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

...And at the end of the day, whether or not you understand the vintage guitar maket, or even care, if you have the bread, and you just have to have one because you love Denison or Albini's tone - you should get one!

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holmes

Joined:
29 Feb 2008
Posts: 182
PostPosted: 02/09/2007 at 3:58 AM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

where are these beans james? im in the uk also.

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rob

PostPosted: 02/09/2007 at 5:55 AM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

2000gbp seems high. the only difference between artists and standards is that artists have block inlays on the fretboard and have a carved top (much like a PRS). travis bean himself said the only thing you are paying more for is visual aesthetics.

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sol

PostPosted: 02/16/2007 at 12:18 PM    Post subject: RE:Hmmm...so whats the value link

OK...$3,500 for a good condition TB500...A mint White 1000 goes for close to $5k...and a beat to shit , broken, practically worthless, Black bean goes for $1.5k

Other people on this thread, myself included, thought the price would reach $5k for the TB500...what gives

Just a theory...Most people who want a TB500 are players...they are young...and they are dirt broke...a $1k guitar is a serious investment...a $2k guitar is almost unattainable...

So these kids have two options: One - don't get a bean...or Two - Buy an egc

Also for the nostalgia-ck (who has the duckets) who wants a Bean to sound like certain players...the egc offers a lower price point...with customization (Shit can you find an original hot pink TB500 TB1000, would you want one?)

I think these two populations are the bulk of the bidders on the 500's...I also think thats why the price point has dropped off in the last several months...but the collectors will come to there senses sooner or later (cough...351 TB500, to ~1,500 TB1000S)...Some ******* will calculate the market cap on these guitars and figure the value is off...

Some BS Analysis
Ok this kind of thinking doesn't hold in the vintage guitar market, or any collectible market (e.g. fine art, classic cars, ****...it doesn't even hold in the stock market sometimes, etc), but I think it's a good proxy.

Hypothetically - you Are Joe Blow, the richest man in the world...but your also a spend thrift and hate to waste money. You want to buy every TB guitar in the world. Every Travis Bean in the world is mint...and everybody values all Travis Bean guitars in proportion to there scarcity (i.e. the less of a particular model there is out there...the more people are willing to pay). Joe is trying to figure out how much he should offer every TB owner as a starting price.

Case One: A TB1000S is worth $2,5k in the market (~1,800 in existence)...then all 350 TB 500 would be worth $12.5k

Case Two: A TB500 is worth $5k in the market (~350 in existence)...then all 1,800 TB1000S are worth $900

Case Three: A TB500 is proportionately valued to a Veleno, 100 in existence and ~15k on vintage the market...then a TB500 is worth $4,200 (my Veleno price is probably off)

I don't think any of these are absolutely true (certain assumptions are made and the value that the actual buyers are willing to pay is ignored)...but I think this approach gets closure to the truth than some of vintage guys want you to think...


After all that...I still view my guitar as a depreciatible asset, so I guess that makes me a communist...

Sol





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