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copy cats?


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rick

Joined:
19 Nov 2010
Posts: 8
PostPosted: 03/07/2011 at 2:56 PM    Post subject: copy cats? link

There is a guy here in Pensacola making metal guitars. I wonder what he does to avoid copyright infringement.
http://www.pnj.com/articl.....ker-heavy-metal-his-trade


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BoulderBean

Joined:
04 Feb 2004
Posts: 305
PostPosted: 03/07/2011 at 3:15 PM    Post subject: RE:copy cats? link

Kevin from the Electrical Guitar Company (EGC) in Pensacola is a member of this forum and can answer this better than anyone.

I own an EGC and a Bean and the designs are very different. EGC doesn't make copies of Beans or Velenos. They do make some terrific metal neck instruments. The copy cat label does not apply here.

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rick

Joined:
19 Nov 2010
Posts: 8
PostPosted: 03/07/2011 at 3:15 PM    Post subject: RE:copy cats? link

http://www.electricalguitarcompany.com/
here is the company making the metal guitars

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admin

Joined:
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Posts: 1266
PostPosted: 03/07/2011 at 3:20 PM    Post subject: RE:copy cats? link

"I wonder what he does to avoid copyright infringement."

Simple.. by not copying.

EGCs are clearly inspired by Travis Bean and Veleno guitars, but they're their own beast. EGCs use the nut to bridge single piece design similar to Beans, and use a solid neck (with slimmer profile and no wood for fingerboards) similar to Velenos. The look and feel are quite different than Travis Beans.

admin

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rick

Joined:
19 Nov 2010
Posts: 8
PostPosted: 03/08/2011 at 7:01 AM    Post subject: RE:copy cats? link

I thought Bean had the copyright for metal neck guitars but I guess it didn't cover all the variations. I've found about a half dozen places that make metal necks now so apparently it was a very specific copyright. Otherwise, why haven't there been more companies making metal necks? There is a market out there, albeit a very exclusive one.

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admin

Joined:
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Posts: 1266
PostPosted: 03/08/2011 at 8:46 AM    Post subject: RE:copy cats? link

rick

There were other metal neck guitars that were before Travis Beans. I mentioned Velenos in my posts - those guitars were before Beans (1972). In fact when Travis applied for the patent on his design he had to address similarities to the Veleno design.

Travis patented the single piece neck from headstock to bridge (no neck joint) design. Here is a link to the original patent:
http://patft.uspto.gov/ne.....=PN/3915049&RS=PN/3915049

There were other metal necks during the existence of Travis Bean guitars - Gary Kramer (who was a partner of TBG) started a company, Kramer Guitars, that used aluminum necks while not violating the patent (solid neck, non-neck to bridge design, and created a profile vs. cut out in the headstock). That design was later sold to Hartke and eventually faded out.

Since then the official Travis Bean patent had expired and builders picked up where it left off creating their own variations of the neck design.

As for why there aren't more. Creating instruments is difficult and non-traditional. Luthiers need to be schooled in the art of machining on top of guitar building experience. Travis Bean Guitars had fantastic machinists that worked there, with one of the greatest luthiers in SoCal at the time. John Veleno (if memory serves me correct) worked as a machinist for NASA. Kevin Burkett of Electrical Guitar is a skilled machinest, etc.

Another reason for not exploding, is the cost and time it takes to make these instruments. It's a slow process and the raw materials are very costly. When Travis Beans were in production, a TB1000S Standard in a guitar shop would sell close to $1000 brand new in 1976. A brand new Gibson Les Paul Standard could be purchased for $300. A Fender Strat.. around $200. Labor and material costs make it an expensive sale.

And finally... I would say the traditional hard acceptability of aluminum instruments in the world of guitars. These are definitely not mainstream (even though.. it's starting to feel like it's more accepted and desired more than ever today). Most people *want* a Les Paul, Strat, Tele type guitar. That's just fact by decades of exposure (visually) and hearing these guitars in recordings forever. Nothing wrong with those guitars, but it's hard to get a serious look by potential customers.

admin


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rick

Joined:
19 Nov 2010
Posts: 8
PostPosted: 03/08/2011 at 6:55 PM    Post subject: RE:copy cats? link

admin
Thanks so much for the history lesson. I didn't know Beans patent had expired. You are totally right about the non-traditional luthiers needing to be schooled. But with the advent of CAD/CAM computers, maximizing design and variations, working through trial and error, etc. I would have thought assembly and production cost would have laxed. Thanks again.
BTW $300 for a Gibson Les Paul Standard!! I got screwed!! I bought my first one in 1980 for $900. My buddy in the band got jealous and went out and bought a Bean for $1k. I've thought about doing a sound compairison video and posting it here. I'd use a backing track, play a few measures on the Les Paul then switch over to the Bean and play the exact same thing so muggles could compare the difference a metal neck makes.

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cgcolorado

Joined:
02 Sep 2012
Posts: 1
PostPosted: 09/02/2012 at 1:59 PM    Post subject: RE:copy cats? link

There may not be a patent infringement, but there is a possible Trademark infringement with the Veleno. It's being investigated.

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